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0:00 - Madeline 

So what you drinking there?

0:02 - Andy 

So I'm drinking a Peruvian decaf because it's at night and we're at home. But our guest isn't drinking decaf. He's drinking Duncan somewhere. Probably. But our guest was Nicholas Heim, Nick Heim, and really enjoyed the episode. How did you like the episode? I really enjoyed it.

0:23 - Andy 

I think that you two got along well.

0:27 - Madeline 

I enjoyed the aspects where y'all talked about introvert and extrovert especially in business and I kind of thought that was funny because he said something like you don't just get over being an introvert overnight and I was like, I was born really, really outgoing. What did you find interesting about it?

0:44 - Andy 

There were so many things. I learned a lot from Nick. The first thing that I really appreciated was just what his why is which is one of the emphasis of the show and how he really is an advocate for the profession, whether that's in his job or whether it's things he's doing on social media. So he wants to lift the profession of engineering. And we have so many introverts that we need people to speak out, to talk about it and share what it is for both the community at large and also the younger people coming up, they'll understand what it is. So that was just a glimpse of what we talked about, but we also talked about so much other things, like one of his heroes that he wants to learn from, another advocate of civil engineering, structural engineering. And we also talked about his job with the innovation field and within the concrete industry. So he works on concrete and repairs of parking garages, but focuses on innovating and improving their workflow so that they can basically be efficient and so forth. So that's really what we talked a lot about today, just innovation in general as well and so many aspects of that. So I think it's a great episode and we'll let everybody jump right into it.

2:14 - Andy 

My name is Andy Richardson.

2:16 - Andy 

I'm a structural engineer. I've been doing this 26 years. I'm still learning so about the AEC industry. So let's go ahead and listen in to the rest of the episode along with us.

2:31 - Unidentified Speaker 

Let's jump to the intro.

2:33 - Madeline 

Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why. All right, well, hey Nick, welcome to the Enhance podcast.

2:46 - Andy 

Andy, it's a pleasure.

2:48 - Nick Heim 

Thank you so much for having me on.

2:51 - Andy 

And glad to have you in Beaufort.

2:54 - Nick Heim 

Beaufort, South Carolina. It's about, I'd say, probably 40 degrees warmer than where I came from, so.

3:00 - Andy 

Yeah, how's that working out for you so far? I love it.

3:04 - Nick Heim 

You know, the thing about where I'm from is it's about just as humid as it is here, but it's cold, so it's like, it's bone-chilling.

3:13 - Andy 

Okay, and you're from Cleveland, Ohio. Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah, so it's a little colder there right now?

3:19 - Unidentified Speaker 

Absolutely.

3:19 - Andy 

Is your wife a little jealous of the pictures that you sent her?

3:24 - Nick Heim 

Yeah, she is, and she's also a big barbecue fan, so she got a pic of a nice plate from Q on the Street. Oh, nice. Q on the Bay, right? Q on Bay, yeah. So, that was probably making her a little bit jealous, but we'll get some when I get home.

3:42 - Andy 

Nice, yeah, and it's a little warmer here than even I'm used to for February, because recording this in early February, but nonetheless, we enjoyed a lot of our morning today. It was just great to have you on because you were able to work in a site visit and also jump on the podcast with us.

4:04 - Unidentified Speaker 

Absolutely.

4:04 - Andy 

I was like, that's going to be really cool because we had a virtual one, but now we've moved to an IRL, which I learned was in real life.

4:16 - Nick Heim 

much of a fan as I am of technology, you know, there's really no replacement for doing things face-to-face. Yeah. So I'm glad we were able to sit down and actually get it done IRL.

4:27 - Andy 

Yeah. So, yeah, let's go ahead and jump on to that first. I guess just the podcast and, I mean, because you have a podcast as well, I mean, and it's just interesting to see, like, we talked about the different formats, obviously, but, I mean, yours is mostly virtual and that's a big difference. In format, right?

4:45 - Nick Heim 

Absolutely, and it makes things easier, and to be honest, we haven't had anything in person. I've been floating the idea of like going to conferences and doing it there. Nothing yet, but it definitely does, it definitely makes for a different experience.

5:00 - Andy 

Yeah, and we've been, I'm the opposite, so we actually had our first podcast scheduled. It was virtual, and I didn't quite have everything set up for that, but I had the setup for the IRL But anyway, you're actually our first, I believe our first non-Buford person on the show. So we're taking out of the city, out of the state, even out of the region, right?

5:26 - Nick Heim 

So coming from a little bit of a different place, even just walking around here, different styles, different architecture, probably a little bit of a different mindset, but I've loved my time here. And it's a beautiful town, like just how laid back and kind and friendly everybody is. Not saying we don't have friendly people back home, but I'd recommend that if you've watched Forrest Gump, you may recognize a sight or two. A few scenes.

5:55 - Andy 

I showed you a few scenes around here, right? Oh, yeah. You got to see the bridge and a few other things. So, yeah, I mean, so really this is the Enhanced Podcast, and people want to learn from you. Engineers, contractors, and even people that aren't those. It's just people that are watching from the sidelines as far as what is the AEC industry all about, but mostly from the AEC industry. I think you bring a unique perspective. You're an engineer. You have some innovation aspects that you work on with your company. You do the innovation podcast, and so you have a lot of things I think people could learn from I sometimes throw a curveball out there to begin the podcast, so this is your curveball that I'm throwing at you. Shoot. If you were to spend a day with an engineer or an inventor from any time frame, who would you want to spend that with?

6:59 - Nick Heim 

That's a great question. I'd actually say, as of late, Ashraf. Ashraf is a I'm kind of the founder and owner of CSI, Computers and Structures, Inc. We've all used SAP, eTabs, and everything, but from the outside looking in, just seems like somebody who's a great engineer, a great entrepreneur, really cares about the industry, the future, the students, doing what he can to make everything successful. And coming from a similar background, combining engineering and technology, that's somebody that, like, I see is...there's not too many, I would say. There's a couple that come to mind, but of the few, I mean, he would be, you know, somebody I'd love to just get to know better and kind of understand kind of his story and just how the man works. Yeah.

7:51 - Nick Heim 

I mean, have you met him at all?

7:54 - Andy 

Okay.

7:54 - Nick Heim 

So, Ashraf, if you're listening, you know, just come on the show. You know, I'll visit you, you visit me. It'll be a good time.

8:02 - Andy 

Okay. Yeah.

8:03 - Andy 

on your podcast, or maybe get him on this one too, right?

8:08 - Andy 

Yeah, two birds with one stone, right? Yeah, and I love the things that he brings up as far as his marketing. He's not marketing his company as much as he's marketing the field of engineering, the industry, and showing the world what we're doing. We're enhancing, but also we're ensuring safety. That's what engineers do, and so he's really highlighting that.

8:32 - Nick Heim 

And he brings up some really good points where, for example, it's like a real estate agent can come and sell a building multiple times, or a broker, whoever the case may be, and they get a cut of that deal each single time. Well, you go and design something, right? You get your design fee once, you're liable for this thing for the rest of its service life, right? And it's crazy to think like that, but that's just the way our profession is structured, so he's done really good job of educating the lay people of what we do and how the industry works. Although, you know, there's always more to do, but it's great to have a voice like his kind of supporting what we do as a profession. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

9:13 - Andy 

And get excited about.

9:14 - Andy 

I mean, he just seems like a fun guy. Yeah, Ashraf in the All-Stars.

9:18 - Nick Heim 

Man, have you seen his bands at some of these things? I haven't been to one personally, but I've seen some of the videos and have talked to people who have been there. And it's crazy, right? Because structural engineers we're not exactly the most extroverted profession, but look what he's able to do and bring all these brilliant people together and have some fun with it. Just like the gentleman on our last site was that if you're not having fun with it, something's wrong.

9:44 - Andy 

What's the point? That's it. I mean, we chose our profession. We don't have to do this. Maybe some days we have to finish what we start, I guess. We talked about the introvert piece a little bit. Earlier today, I mean, a lot of people don't realize this about me. I am, because, you know, I do a lot of LinkedIn posting, you do a lot of LinkedIn posting, and, you know, we're on, we're like on podcasts, so people are like, oh, they're like extroverts, but I'm not. I mean, it's very, like, I'll pay for, I'll pay for this later, you know? We talked about that too.

10:19 - Nick Heim 

And it's an acquired skill. It just doesn't happen like that overnight. Yeah. And same thing with engineering It's like none of us were born as engineers. We might have been, you know, we might have been like attracted to that or have a certain way about us, but it took, you know, training and time in the field to get to where we are today. And it's the same thing whether it be sales or marketing, business development, or anything that's, you know, more typically considered to be of an extrovert than an introvert.

10:48 - Andy 

Right, right. I mean, the thing that an introvert brings in to sales and marketing for one thing is that dedicated thought, right? Like you're going to spend time thinking about, okay, what am I going to say in a sales situation or a marketing situation? Or obviously in engineering, it's very helpful because you can focus on a task for an extended period of time, typically. So, I mean, there's definitely some benefits to it, but yeah, I like that it's an acquired skill to do things like this. So, going Coming back to the time machine a little bit, to your history and your background, and just starting out in civil engineering degree, what got you going with that?

11:33 - Nick Heim 

That's a great question. Taking it back, it's back in the day. When I was in kindergarten, man, I loved playing with blocks and trains and computers. I remember my parents saying, yeah, we used to tell you you'd be an engineer or whatever, it kind of showed. And then when I was like a junior in high school, we had this career day at a local college in the Institute of Technology. And I remember them having this like, it was just, it was like bridge simulation software. So you could like, you know, build your little bridge and then drive the truck over and like see how everything held up. And it would like, you know, it'd like fall and your truck would like go into the water. And that was like, I think those two in tandem, Like, that early experience, you know, with all the toys and math and science, and then kind of right towards the end of my high school career, like, showing what the possibilities are, and I think that's really what led me into civil engineering.

12:37 - Andy 

Okay. Awesome. And so you went into civil engineering, you obviously got your degree, and then went into the engineering field.

12:46 - Andy 

and practice as an engineer for a few years.

12:49 - Andy 

So, how long have you been doing that?

12:52 - Nick Heim 

So, my career started in 2017, so it'll be coming up on eight years later this year. Wow, cool.

13:00 - Andy 

Well, that's the same year I started my 2096. There you go. It's an interesting year.

13:06 - Nick Heim 

2017, it was a good year to be an engineer.

13:09 - Andy 

Yeah, so you did that, and then how long did you practice Can you tell me about what you did as a practicing engineer?

13:19 - Nick Heim 

Yeah. So, Cleveland's a market that is not, I would say, it's not booming with new development, but there's a lot of existing building stock that needs to be maintained. So, if you're living in Cleveland, odds are you're going to touch the restoration field at some point. So, I started off doing forensics and restoration. That's pretty much what I did for my entire career. And I was with two firms prior to the company I'm with now, but I realized that although engineering, I enjoyed the time and the field work and everything, there was kind of like an itch to scratch and something I knew I wanted to do within the field, but that's just little bit different than like what a typical practicing structural or restoration or forensic engineer does.

14:15 - Andy 

So you had an itch, I mean like you were doing engineering and it was just something else.

14:21 - Nick Heim 

Yeah and so it goes back to my like my first job right out of college and we're actually going to do, it was a roof inspection and the principal handed me, it was a digital camera, pen and paper, and I'm sitting there like trying to figure out where I am on this thing and write notes and take pictures. I'm like, this is the stupidest thing in the world. I was like, there's gotta be a better way. And I was very fortunate because at that same firm, I had two really good mentors who supported me in that pursuit. And that's kind of where my love for, let's call it innovation or technology, specifically within the field of structural engineering, restoration, and forensics. I would say came from From that, yeah.

15:08 - Andy 

And so this digital camera, like, did something come of that or the project you were working on, did something come of that, like an idea or...?

15:19 - Nick Heim 

Yeah, and so the idea was...it was less specifically about, like, that job or that process. It's just that ingrained mentality of, like, I've heard it, like, if you ever listen to Ed Milet, he calls that I think it's blissful dissatisfaction, like being grateful for what you have, but also striving to do more. And it was like, yeah, I was grateful for the opportunity, grateful for the people teaching me, even if I didn't necessarily agree with their methods, but always looking to take that next step and do things better, and not so much differently, because I'm always feeling like if it's not broke, don't break it. There are some reasons why things are done, and there's no need to change it, but for a lot of different scenarios, there is a different and better way of doing things.

16:09 - Andy 

Yeah, I really like that quotation, too, about the blissful dissatisfaction. Because we can always improve something, right? I mean, I call it, we like to spend a lot of time on innovation at 2096 as well, but we're learning what that means how to do it, you know, so forth. But you basically have a dedicated innovation role is what I think I understand.

16:38 - Nick Heim 

Absolutely, yep. And so what I do is just in support of our business objectives. So it's, you know, there's a reason that we actually do innovation. It's not just to go chase shiny objects. It's not to play with the, you know, the new and greatest toy. I love doing that, don't get me wrong. But there's gotta be a reason, right? We don't go into business just to putz around. So it's tied to very specific objectives we're trying to meet, whether that's business objectives or serving the client or making an existing process better. So I like to say we have external stakeholders, we have internal stakeholders. So external are just clients that are the ones that are paying you money to run your business. And then internal could be, It could be project managers, salespeople. So we serve on our innovation team a lot of different types of roles and people, but it's always with some end objective in mind.

17:40 - Andy 

Now, is that end objective always money?

17:44 - Nick Heim 

No, it's not. It often is tied to some financial outcome, but there are others that, let's say, maybe you're You're saving time, but that's not time that you're gonna build back, but it's a quality of life thing. I ultimately think things like that end up positively impacting the bottom line, but the first order objective isn't always money.

18:12 - Andy 

What's an example of one maybe?

18:15 - Nick Heim 

Yeah, so one, so we'll say one that definitely drives to the bottom line is If you're going to... You're going to a parking garage, right? The way we used to do it is the engineer would show up on site with, you know, pen, paper, a tape, and a wheel. And they're just sketching this outline out, right?

18:36 - Unidentified Speaker 

Taking measurements.

18:36 - Nick Heim 

Half a day goes by. Now they're ready to start their inspection. Well, now we have a workflow that actually cuts all of that out, so they show up to site with a set of, let's say, floor plans, so they can actually start their inspection. Then you figure how many projects do we do a year, how many hours a project are we saving, so on and so forth. And this is whether or not our client provides us with that information. So we just have a variety of techniques that we've developed over time to make that process work.

19:07 - Andy 

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like a big time saver, which, I mean, a lot of times they are directly tied to money, right? But also, I mean, That aside, if it didn't save money, sometimes there's a frustration component. Quality of life. Yeah, I mean like for me as an engineer, I've gotten burned out of certain tasks or like beam sizing for example or something like that over the years. Like how many times can you do the same exact task? So I think there's a point at which innovation can help eliminate some of that.

19:43 - Nick Heim 

And I like it's getting the tedious and mundane off of the plates of our very talented engineers as much as possible, right? You go to engineering school to do engineering. You didn't go to engineering school to, for example, go drag a chain and go sound concrete, right? It's a part of the job, but if there's ways we can reduce or eliminate those types of tedious and mundane tasks, I think we're really doing our fellow engineer a great service.

20:14 - Andy 

Yeah, okay.

20:15 - Andy 

Now, we've talked a lot about engineers, but your podcast is, I think it's just AEC industry, right? The A and the C, we don't want to leave them out, right?

20:28 - Nick Heim 

No, absolutely not. And to be fair, the podcast is hosted by the Engineering Management Institute, which its roots are in civil engineering, right? So there's, of course, I don't want to say bias, inherently geared towards civil engineers. So while we're definitely not leaving out the A or the C, because I think the themes can go across the entire industry and even industries outside of ours, I noticed at one point there wasn't a great place for practicing engineers to go and say, I bet there's a better way to do this, I just don't know how, right? And to help them start their and start their process of, like, getting to where they think they can go and just doing what we can to help them along the way.

21:22 - Andy 

Yeah, okay. But definitely the concept of, you know, innovating and improving isn't isolated to the engineering field. Would you agree with that?

21:31 - Nick Heim 

I would agree, but what I would also say is there's just not a lot of people out there, like, for the most part, like helping our industry. So like there's a lot of construction technology and I would say of the AE and the C, there's a lot of, there's definitely a lot more targeted at the C. And there's a number of reasons why I think that is, but like our fellow engineer, I would say in certain like domains of what we do isn't quite there yet. If we're talking CAD and Revit and a lot of these design tools, I think we've got that pretty well covered. Whether you agree that it's fully fleshed out is a different discussion. But specifically, the niches that I've worked in, I've noticed there's a lot of room for improvement. So it's just doing what we can to help our profession.

22:30 - Andy 

So we have to, as the A and the E, we almost have to do it ourselves, is what I'm hearing. Not everybody can have a full timer. What do people like me, maybe a 20 person firm or less, do in that situation?

22:48 - Nick Heim 

Any suggestions? So what I recommend is don't go out and spend a bunch of money before you know what you're trying to accomplish. So it's always starting with the business objectives or the why. Is it a process? People like what are you ultimately trying to accomplish as like part of your innovation strategy problems worth solving is Is one way to put it and then it's going out to find solutions, right? Like is it something that? Can you do it for free with something you're already doing now, right? Can you buy some simple off-the-shelf software, right? You know, do you need to go build something yourself? I think that's not practical for a lot of small and medium-sized size businesses. And part of that is just the free content that the Engineering Management Institute puts out. So people can do their own research specific to their problem, and then if they ever want to hop on a call or get some consulting, they can at least come armed and not, let's say, not spend a bunch of time and money on something they're not even clear about, if that makes sense.

24:01 - Andy 

Yeah, it does, actually. So, yeah, it's good, good ideas to consider if, you know, you want to improve. And then there might be some people that in any three of those that say, well, why bother? I mean, what would you say to them? Yeah.

24:18 - Nick Heim 

And I'd say, you know, it's, it's really, it's really up to you because, I mean, you know, like I get, I've run into a number of like those type of people, but they're the ones who know their businesses best, right? I'm not going to go here and tell someone who's been in the business for 30 or 40 years the way they're doing. It's wrong. I might be able to help them do something more efficiently, but it's ultimately your business. It's your baby. It's whatever you want to do with it. We're just here to help if and when the time's right.

24:52 - Andy 

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. I want to switch gears a little bit just for fun.

24:57 - Nick Heim 

Okay. That's what we're here for, right?

24:59 - Andy 

Have some fun. Well, I mean, we say that we like to laugh, we like to learn, and we like to inspire. That's my goal in a podcast, so I know you like to do that, and we met on LinkedIn, so I noticed you've put a lot of good material out there for parking garages and innovation, but also you like to have a little fun, put a little meme or two out there.

25:24 - Nick Heim 

So what's your favorite mean yes right now man so engineering wise there's there's one I don't remember what movie it's from but it's like they're in a church and there's three people in a row and the first guy has got a gun to the back of his head that's held by the second guy and the second guy's got a gun held back of his head by a third person and then up like up where the choir would be or whatever behind there's a guy with a sniper and it's like it's typically goes something then the first guy is us, the engineer, and the architect's holding a gun up to our head, and then a contractor's holding a gun up to the architect's head, and then there's the sniper, which is the developer. And I just laugh because it's just like, how many times have you just been downstream of something, and you just had no control over it, but it just kinda is what it is, and you just have to deal with the result of it? And I found that I actually posted, not where I work currently, but a previous firm, just like on the bulletin board, and like every time I see it, it makes me laugh.

26:27 - Andy 

Yeah, nice. That's a good one. I haven't seen that one, so maybe I'll...

26:32 - Nick Heim 

Maybe we'll get a B-roll up, show that one. I'll send it to you. It'll give everybody a visual who's watching.

26:38 - Andy 

Yeah, we got a YouTube version of it, too. If you're just an Apple or Spotify person, check out the YouTube sometime. But yeah, that's a pretty funny one, and there was one that I think you shared with It's uh, that was I liked it was you live in the age of AI and showers and you complain Yeah, and I think Man, what's his name?

27:00 - Nick Heim 

Ruben? I think oh Yeah, he I believe I saw that from him and I had to laugh man because one it's to me It's like, you know every day I wake up. It's just it's just being grateful To be alive and have the opportunity right and like all the good in the world As much as it's easy to get caught up in the bad and like, don't get me wrong, I do that too, for sure. It's like just human nature. But the saying is right. It's like, we've had hot showers for as long as plumbing has been around. It's something to be grateful for and you can figure that out next time your water heater fails, right? How much you miss it. But then in the age of, yeah, it's like I can't even, it's like unreal. Better, I would say, it's made work and like, you know, like work-life balance and all by just being able to be more efficient. But if you're somebody who, you know, doesn't care to experiment with it or doesn't really think it has any value, you know, you'll just never know what you're missing out on, if anything.

28:02 - Andy 

Well, it's kind of like you never experienced a hot shower. Yeah, I would...yeah.

28:06 - Nick Heim 

It's like, what are we, cavemen out here? Well, yeah, that's a good one.

28:10 - Andy 

And I think about that almost...I think about that meme a lot, like when I take a shower. I'm like, you live in the age of AI and showers, and you still complain. Because, I mean, people that, like, we had a guest here this week, Robert Deloach, and he's 98 years old, so he probably grew up and didn't take hot showers, you know?

28:34 - Nick Heim 

He may have even been in the outhouse, man. Yeah, for sure. We'd have to ask him.

28:40 - Andy 

Yeah, so, and I've got some notes from him so it made me think about the fact that because we did talk about technology with Robert and he does like me to call him Robert by the way because he's like Mr. Deloach you know it was my father.

28:58 - Nick Heim 

But let's you know and let's talk about like just having respect for like the people in the generation that laid the groundwork like if you know like like I said like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna disrespect that 30 or 40 year industry veteran because of the wealth of knowledge that they bring. I'm just gonna try to offer the expertise that I have that they may or probably don't have just because what we're able to do today wasn't possible. 30, 40, in Robert's case, what do you think, 50 plus years ago?

29:34 - Andy 

I mean, he started his career in 1950.

29:37 - Andy 

So we're talking 70.

29:39 - Nick Heim 

70 years ago, 75 years ago. So it's all about respect. And like I said, I've had mentors. I've had mentors of all different ages. And one in particular that has been in the game a while, mid to late 60s, dude's as sharp as a tack. And he's taught me a lot about what I know because he's so innovative. So age isn't really a barrier to innovation. I think it's all about mindset. The same time, like, you know, it's just about respect and not...just because somebody is not using the latest and greatest or whatever, like, doesn't mean you don't still respect everything they bring to the table.

30:20 - Andy 

Right. I mean, that's what they know, you know? I mean, I have...you know, I've told you about RG.

30:28 - Andy 

Man.

30:28 - Unidentified Speaker 

Love the acronyms.

30:29 - Andy 

So I'm an acronym guy, right? But RG means retired guy, and David is one of our engineers. You know, I think he's probably like late 60s, early 70s, but he's got so much vast knowledge of experience that I can gain from, and he's seen things I haven't even thought about before in his lifetime, and he's also just very detailed, so I guess just a quick tip to consider is we have these people that are RGs in your life, they might be available to help you out with your company, whether you're an architecture, engineering, or construction company, and they're just sitting around playing shuffleboard, but maybe we can keep them busy, and a lot of these people want to stay busy. So, just an idea for the audience to consider. I mean, I've found value in that, because maybe they're retired and they just want to come back and spend 10 hours or 20 hours a week to help out, improve provide value to an AEC company. So something to consider.

31:36 - Nick Heim 

Like all the younger engineers, you know, and I have, I would say I have a couple of people like this in my life where they're just glad that you took the time to pick up the phone and call them. And like selfishly, right, it's like it's free mentorship. Like these people are amazing. And like I would echo like everything they know, like they've forgotten more than I know to this point. And just being able to like tap into a resource like that is, it's crazy. And here's another example. I don't know if you've heard about this one, Andy, but Thorne Tomasetti, with the permission of this individual, he was a renowned welding engineer. They actually basically built, it's almost like an artificial digital twin of this gentleman. Comment through his records, interviews with him. And this was all done with his grace permission before he passed away. And even today, I was told you can ask questions, and his artificial representation will answer. And I mean, it's kind of like a way to leave a legacy that, was that even possible five years ago? Wow, that's crazy. And then thinking about, and there's other, I think, institutions I've heard of, like museums, for example. This where you can, like, go chat with, like, a World War I vet that they've maybe done a similar process with. But just having your legacy be able to live on, you know, respectfully, of course, with the individual's permission, I think is pretty cool.

33:13 - Andy 

Yeah, I like that idea. It's almost like a specific kind of AI, like a welding engineer GPT.

33:20 - Nick Heim 

And then I would say the alternative to that is, like, If it's not for you as either a company or an individual, just figure out a different way to do knowledge transfer and leave a legacy.

33:35 - Andy 

Yeah. I mean, it's about effort. It's about focus. What do you want to, if you're on the mentee side or the mentor side, what do you want to give back to the younger generation? Or if you're younger, what do you want to learn? To ask the question sometimes, right?

33:55 - Nick Heim 

And even on the mentee side, it's like, what can you give or provide to make the relationship even more valuable to your mentor? Because so many times you think of it as a one-way street from mentor to mentee. But in my case, as I was learning the ropes in a profession that's been around for a while, there were certain things that I knew and understood that my mentors really just Didn't so I was able to in return for like their advice and their wisdom give them something back And I mean that could be technology. It could be social media Mostly stuff that they probably wouldn't have had the chance to learn and then by the time they've gotten to the role They're in it's like, you know you You you do what you're good at and maybe acquiring some of these skills isn't like top of the list So having somebody to help you along I think goes a long way Now your company that you're at now is fully remote? We've got, so we've got an HQ and like you'll get people in the office that are local to that area but otherwise fully remote.

35:01 - Andy 

Like you're remote? Yeah. So the reason I asked is what is the impact of that on this conversation about mentorship?

35:09 - Nick Heim 

You have to be, I'd say you have to be intentional about one, getting the mentorship virtually and then two, scheduling time to actually be mentored in person because you know I come into our HQ right like everybody's like they're not like dropping everything because I'm coming in right like they've got jobs to they've got lives to live so it's like hey you know I'm coming out on such-and-such date like can we set up a one-on-one can we set up a coffee can we do X Y & Z right so like you have to be intentional about it and you you have to want to actually do it. Because it doesn't come as naturally as every engineering office. It's like, hey, 22-year-old engineer, let me pull you in and show you what we're doing and working together on projects and getting that natural flow of mentorship.

36:03 - Andy 

It's a very intentional doing. Yeah, I like that, the intentionality. And even just setting up specific calendar times or whatever. Whether it's in person or maybe it's virtual times, right? So, I wanted to go back to the Robert thing for a minute. Yeah, absolutely. It was an interesting contrast between the technology that he has seen over the years, right? He talked about his slip stick. Do you know what a slip stick is? I do not. It's a slide rule. That's what they call it.

36:37 - Nick Heim 

They called the slide rule slip sticks.

36:40 - Andy 

Yeah, so that was a funny little thing that I learned, but that's what he used. You can do anything with a slip stick that you can with the calculator you have. So that's what he used, hand drawings, but then he knows what Revit, he understands Revit, he understands the value of Revit, AutoCAD, and he saw all of it, and he just retired five years ago. Peter's come in, right? And he even talked about the bag phone. But this just seems like a contrast between that and some of the things that you're using, and AI, et cetera. Can you relate to that contrast, or maybe speak to that contrast a little bit?

37:30 - Nick Heim 

Yeah, so the quote, I can't remember what grade scientist it was, It's like I've only gotten to where I am by standing on the shoulders of giants, right? So there's a lot of groundwork laid here to make any of this possible, right? And it's come in phases and steps, but there's a certain way of just technology we use out in the field, right? A phone or an iPad. Well, that whole suite of applications and software doesn't get developed without some guy basically getting the supercomputer in our pockets, right? And that doesn't come about without and you can trace it all the way back to Robert and even before his time. So I think you have to realize that like everything we do today is possible because somebody else took the time and pushed us forward that came that came before us. And if you you know if you look at technology over time like and how things have been moving particularly over I'd say the past like 20 to 25 years It's like the progress just gets crazier and crazier So maybe like the I want to say maybe like the bigger difference is just the the rate of change That we're seeing and I'd be curious to ask Robert. It's like if you chunked, you know your career from 1950 to 2020 it's like, you know, if you plotted that rate of change, like what did it look like, Was it was it relatively flat until we started getting the internet like what speed of change? Did you see and how do you like compare that to like, you know, what's admittedly not an easy thing to keep up with today?

39:10 - Andy 

Yeah, that would be an interesting, maybe we'll have a follow up interview with him. Yeah. Um, so yeah, because even, um, the other thing that, that is interesting about the conversation, I think, um, and I'm, I mean, I'm 48, so I see like the benefit of analog And what I, you know, my experience with the pen and paper, I mean, we didn't, you know, we're just starting to see Bluebeam in the past three years. Well, I mean, at our company, and I did red lines by hand. So I did that for my whole career, red lines, you know? And even like the calculations would all be by hand or, you know, like the jobs that we do that are hand calcs would be like by hand, and the drawings are a lot of by hand, at least on the Redline side. But now, three years ago, we started using Bluebeam. So, it's just interesting to me because I can see the value that I gained from the analog and learning and the connection between the paper and the mind and the growth. And then now, the engineers that are coming through are just like on Bluebeam. And so, is there a piece missed from that Or if that question makes sense at all, do you see the benefit of the analog versus the digital at times? I do.

40:34 - Nick Heim 

Yeah, and I actually just ran a post like this where there are drawbacks to digital, and you could say analog is agile because, you know, think about, let's say, like trying to do a quick hand sketch versus doing something like in CAD, right? Like, you know, the stroke of the pen, very free flowing, right, there's a lot more flexibility there, versus CAD is kind of like these, like, right, commands and everything is very much like, you know, one thing to the next versus the flow of doing my hand. And there's like, you know, a number of examples I could think of, but I think analog definitely has value. I remember, you know, actually my first internship was in estimating for a construction company. And the first thing my boss at the time made me do, he was like, hey, I know you know how to use Excel and Bluebeam, but I want you to do this takeoff by hand. And there's an engineer I know who, he thinks that all the time he spent detailing by hand helped him understand load path intuitively, which I never really thought about because by the time I was starting, Hand drafting sketching is different but hand drafting Really just wasn't a thing where I'd worked and I thought you know what that's like a really good point and I could understand like where he's coming from like literally like Feeling the forces of the structure as you like draw each detail and go through your design So to answer your question, yeah, I think there's merit to it. It's just at what point do you at what point do you? You gain most, if not all, of the benefits of analog and then turn that into a digital process to just be more efficient.

42:27 - Andy 

Right, right. Yeah, and I'm not necessarily saying, oh, throw diluting in the garbage. I think that's where we are, but it's also we have to understand where we are so that we can maybe make certain adaptations to that so that we don't lose too much of the process of the old.

42:46 - Nick Heim 

And yeah, and what if, you know, if you, if you're, you know, you got an EIT coming in or a young engineer and you know they're not going to be productive right away, right? There's going to be a dip. For the first six months of their, of the career, do you just have a curriculum set where like, hey, like, like just throw your computer out because we're doing everything by hand. Yeah. And it's not going to be this way forever, but just to teach them like how it feels to do it manually. So then when they take that step to digital from analog, they're reaping the benefits that they may not even be aware of exist.

43:25 - Andy 

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. And that ties right back to the innovation department as far as understanding unintended consequences of innovation, right? That's an important aspect of it, I think.

43:39 - Nick Heim 

So here's another example, laser scanning, right? I just had a great guest on my podcast. He's actually a surveyor, super knowledgeable, didn't actually come from the surveying industry. His background, I want to say, was closer to finance, but got into the business and loved it. And one thing we were talking about is, so, scanning. Before, right, like you might do in the case of engineering, like you take a couple dimensions on a building, right, and you get like essentially the bare minimum out of information. That you need to do your job, you go scan hundreds of thousands or millions of points. How do you sort through what actually means something and what is information that you have as a result of the process but doesn't really do anything for you? Because in an analog world, like I said, every piece of data you collect in analog is for a specific reason. That's not always the case in digital. So it's like mixing the lessons you learn by doing doing something manually or analog and then applying it to digital to make the best of both worlds, I think.

44:45 - Andy 

Right, right. It's the why of what you're doing, right? So yeah, obviously that was an intentional segue that I put in there because I think, you know, just to sort of bring this in for a landing, but maybe just some final thoughts from you about something that maybe the audience could learn from as far as if it was an engineering lesson. So if there was one engineering lesson that you could share with the audience or innovation perhaps, what would that be?

45:25 - Nick Heim 

So there's so many, but there are so many good ones out there. So like let's say like these like problems worth solving or like solution in search of a problem, right? Like there's a reason in in life and in business that we like do certain things a certain way and often like my advice is like hey in innovation you're trying to like start with the root and like the why you're trying to do something and then apply the solution and not do it the other way around. So I I like to think of that in my life is like, you know, whether it's intentionality or coming up with a plan, but being very specific about, like, why I do things or like, like, you know, the meaning or legacy I'm trying to leave behind or whatever the case may be. But, you know, having a reason to just do what you do. Yeah. OK.

46:24 - Andy 

I like that.

46:25 - Nick Heim 

And what is your reason for doing Man, so family is obviously a big part of it, right? We're all trying to make a living, support our families. But beyond that, I think the engineering profession is one that's really, really ... It's a great place to be, but I don't, for the most part, think people know what we do. It's like they hear engineer and it's like, oh yeah, dude, you out there driving trains or something? When you think about what representation do we have on the national stage, and I'm an introvert myself, but I think there's so many great people and lessons and stories out there, and I've just been fortunate to have the opportunity to be one of the gang, be an engineer, but also the platform to share what these people know and are doing, and help other people. Share their story, share their experience and what they do. So from a professional standpoint, I think it's just it's kind of spreading the message about like the industry that we're in, the people that make it up. And, you know, I think it's a it's a great place to be. And I thought about this a lot, even more so with the advent of technology and AI and like how our industry functions is we're not like sheltered or anything like that, but because were such a relationship in person, business, or industry, there's a lot to be gained, but there's also that solid core that just, you know, it's kind of like probably the same thing that Robert was doing back in the 50s, right? You know, shaking hands, kissing babies, meeting people in person.

48:14 - Andy 

Yeah, awesome, awesome. So is there anything else you want to talk about today or share about your with the audience?

48:22 - Nick Heim 

Man, let me take a look at our little list here.

48:26 - Andy 

I mean, if you want to do a plug, this is a good time to do that.

48:32 - Nick Heim 

Yeah, so if you are, you know, someone in the industry and you're interested in applications of technology or innovation to your business, you can look up the AEC Engineering and Technology Podcast. We're up to almost 70 episodes at this point, and it's a wide-ranging variety of topics. Across A, E, and C, and it's just, I think, a great resource to get people started on the right foot in whatever you're trying to accomplish.

49:01 - Andy 

So, if you wanna take a listen, find me there.

49:05 - Nick Heim 

What's a hot one that you've recently done? So, man, it's like...

49:10 - Andy 

Interesting one.

49:11 - Nick Heim 

Yeah. So, the one I was telling you about with surveying with Kevin Wasting Man, that guy he's sharp and it's such a great like series of lessons because like surveying is not technically A, E, or C but it's so embedded in everything we do and a couple of good lessons there are you know like the the fall and then rise again of like the surveying profession you know other adjacent fields that are kind of coming into like what has been considered surveying's turf. You know, the rate of change of some of this technology and computing and how to keep on top of all that, all of which I think are great lessons because sooner or later we're gonna be in engineering facing some of those same questions. So I like to think of it as a little peek into the future, I'd like to say. You know, if I think everybody in the industry wouldn't mind getting paid little bit more, so I think it's a great profession that we have here, and hopefully we continue to see kind of demand for students coming out of school increase. Okay, awesome. Yeah, I might have to check that episode out here pretty soon.

50:26 - Andy 

Absolutely. All right, anything else you want to share about?

50:29 - Nick Heim 

No, I just want to say thank you again for having me on, taking the time.

50:33 - Andy 

This has been great, and we'll look forward to the next one.

50:37 - Andy 

And you got a good LinkedIn profile as well.

50:39 - Nick Heim 

Yeah, so you can look me up on LinkedIn, nickheimpe, I'm sure that'll be in the show notes if anybody wants to take a peek.

50:47 - Nick Heim 

Like Andy said, I like to post stuff that people, I think people will find valuable, but I like to have a lot of fun, because if you're not having fun, what's the point?

50:57 - Andy 

Yeah, you got any good memes coming up?

51:00 - Nick Heim 

Man, I gotta get back on the train.

51:02 - Andy 

Yeah.

51:03 - Andy 

All right, cool, man.

51:04 - Andy 

What's your secret for finding a meme?

51:06 - Andy 

Like, is there a trick to it?

51:08 - Nick Heim 

Nah, so I go to imageflip.com.

51:10 - Nick Heim 

I just like, I scroll through the most popular ones and I'm like, I'm like, I, cause I literally, I draw everything from my own experience.

51:17 - Nick Heim 

Like, like I just look at stuff and I'm like, oh yeah, I remember when I was like on site with that guy and he told me I was like a knucklehead.

51:24 - Nick Heim 

And then I like make the meat, you know what I mean?

51:27 - Nick Heim 

So you were making them like, yeah, I don't like for them, like I would say there's like one or two I've maybe like grabbed from somebody else, but I'm kind of like, there's enough accounts out there that do nothing but repost other people's stuff.

51:38 - Nick Heim 

So I'm just like, so I'm just gonna do it myself.

51:42 - Nick Heim 

And that's also a good life lesson is like by building that muscle, whether it be like writing or doing calcs or like whatever the case may be, making memes, you're building that muscle and giving your unique style or flair that people really enjoy.

52:00 - Nick Heim 

And you can even see that on platforms like LinkedIn today.

52:04 - Nick Heim 

Everybody hates AI-generated comments and posts, right?

52:07 - Nick Heim 

And it all sounds the same and there's no unique style or tone.

52:12 - Nick Heim 

So even with the advent of being able to do a lot of things at the snap of a finger, I still think there's value in like doing things yourself.

52:21 - Nick Heim 

It's just knowing, I think, you know, the Eisenhower matrix, right?

52:25 - Nick Heim 

Or maybe that's not the word, but like the high impact type stuff.

52:29 - Andy 

I think that's what it is, yeah.

52:32 - Nick Heim 

And knowing what that is versus like the low effort, The high effort stuff that's low impact just needs to be done.

52:40 - Nick Heim 

There's better use cases there, I think, but when it comes to your persona, your brand, your messaging, there's nothing wrong with just doing it the old-fashioned way.

52:51 - Andy 

Yeah, and maybe a young engineer or old AEC professional, I mean, should they be posting on LinkedIn?

52:58 - Nick Heim 

I think to answer that question, you need to know, like I said, What is your purpose, right?

53:05 - Nick Heim 

So if your purpose is to connect with like an audience that just doesn't use LinkedIn I'd recommend you go find like where your audience lives, right?

53:14 - Nick Heim 

If you're trying to let's say I know a couple people who use LinkedIn not to find clients but to recruit You know, I think that's probably a good idea It would you just be well served to understand like is the niche you're hiring in actually almost LinkedIn, right?

53:31 - Nick Heim 

Like, there's nothing wrong with, you know, Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky.

53:35 - Nick Heim 

Like, it's just finding where your audience is.

53:38 - Andy 

Right.

53:39 - Andy 

Right.

53:39 - Andy 

Yeah.

53:39 - Andy 

Well, that was a bit of a segue, but I figured I'd ask and appreciate your time today, Nick.

53:46 - Andy 

Yeah, absolutely.

53:47 - Nick Heim 

My pleasure.

53:48 - Andy 

And hope you enjoy the rest of the good weather here.

53:52 - Nick Heim 

Yes, sir.

53:53 - Andy 

All right.

53:53 - Nick Heim 

Take care, buddy.

53:54 - Nick Heim 

Yes, sir.

53:55 - Madeline 

Hey, everybody.

53:56 - Madeline 

Thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhance.

53:59 - Madeline 

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