0:00 - Madeline 
Okay, so to start off today's episode, I wanted to ask, has it ever resonated with you to work more with your hands than in a desk job?

0:09 - Andy 
I've definitely thought about it a lot over the years. I mean, you know, I've worked in engineering my whole career, but what we're talking about today is the skill trades. Right. And, you know, we have a connection to the skill trades, your brother. Yes, Charlie. And he, we talk a lot about that in So today, how people, some people like Charlie, for example, prefer to work in the field. They prefer to work with their hands. And we also talked about how that's a substantial opportunity for people. I mean, and just how there's a vacuum right now in the skilled trades. There's a need for people in the skilled trades. And that's what we're talking about today is what is the opportunities available to people And we have Andrew Brown on. He is an advocate for the skilled trades. He's really found his vision, his why, which is to be an advocate for the skilled trades. And also, he's talking about how people can find their vision, their why, in working in the skilled trades by working with their hands and by really just doing something of value. We talk about the idea that you could be like somebody like me who designs a building, or you could be somebody like Charlie who built a building effectively. I mean, he's doing the HVAC. Have you ever thought about being in the skilled trades, for example? I don't think I have.

1:35 - Madeline 
I mean, when I was little, I thought I'd be a cook, but that's about it.

1:40 - Andy 
Yeah. Yeah.

1:41 - Andy 
So what did you think about the episode in general? Any other ideas?

1:45 - Madeline 
I really enjoyed it. I thought, I think the idea of being active in what you're doing and like working in like Charlie and HVAC or whatever it is can be it's definitely needed, but I think it's good to wrap that.

1:58 - Andy 
And I like the idea behind it.

2:00 - Andy 
Yeah, and so I think the tie-in for people in the AEC industry, obviously it's the C part heavily, but also if you're a parent, has kids that are coming up, and you're thinking about what should I encourage my child to do, maybe they don't want to be an architect like you or an engineer like you. Maybe they want to be in the skilled trades. And so it's something to consider, and that's That's really what this episode is about that we want to focus on. So I appreciate him being on today, and I think the listeners are going to enjoy it.

2:33 - Madeline 
All right, let's jump to the episode.

2:35 - Andy 
All right. Hey, everybody. My name is Andy Richardson. I'm a structural engineer. I've been doing this 26 years. This is my producer, Madeline, and we're here to listen to the professionals in the AEC industry and listen to their why so that you can understand yours. Let's jump to the intro.

2:55 - Madeline 
Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why.

3:05 - Andy 
Hey, Andrew.

3:05 - Andy 
Welcome to the Enhance podcast. Annie, it is great to be here.

3:11 - Andrew 
Thanks for having me.

3:12 - Andy 
Yeah, definitely looking forward to having you on today and just being on the podcast and everything. So I'm going to jump right with the first question which is just, yeah, was there like a significant moment in your life that got you started in the trades and like a pivotal moment that got you going with that?

3:37 - Andrew 
9-11-2001 is always the date that I go back to. I was really a high tech guy. I was really aspiring to be like a programmer or do network administration and I kind of just veered off, way off the radar in a good way, where I found myself on ground zero a few days after the World Trade Center incident, helping first responders, working back to back with tradespeople. And what I didn't realize after that incident is I just had that aha moment that I don't want to be doing what I'm doing in IT, And I quit a job in the city that I had. And I formed a tool and equipment business with my brother named Tool Fetch to really support the people in the trades to get them what they want, when they want, and where they want. And we carry over 2 million products from 650 different vendors. That's my way to give back to the trades and be sort of a link in the chain to try to help people get their job done, get infrastructure work done, across the country, but that's really how I got my start.

4:52 - Andy 
So really, you were able to use your technology, your knowledge in IT, and really help the tradespeople do their job, right? Is that basically what ToolFetch is? Yeah.

5:04 - Andrew 
We carry so many different brands, and we speak to all different types of tradespeople, electricians, and welders, and carpenters, and I've always heard their struggles, you know, throughout the years and wages can't find people. And I just was like fed up at that point. And I really wanted to sort of be out there and be a voice or a beacon for the blue collar skilled trades and started putting out content a handful of years ago and literally have not stopped. And I just on this mission to really kind of bridge the trades gap and get the next generation into the trades. So always kind of beat that drum.

5:43 - Andy 
So yeah, definitely seen you beat the drum quite a bit over the past, since I've really amped up my LinkedIn presence over the past year, I guess, and started this podcast, but one of the reasons that I got to know you was just through my son, and he was one of the earlier podcast episodes back in the fall, the Charlie episode, and he's in the trades, the HVAC trade to be specific. And so we got to know you a little bit and just shared with you his journey, United States Marine Corps, also working in the trades. And so I'm a structural engineer, so I guess similar to you in some ways because I have mad respect for what the trades people do. And now I see my own son in that field, which is really cool. So I want to figure out how can I support him and really trades people in general. So that's one reason I thought it would be a great idea to have you on. So I want to get into that a bit about how can I support him in the trades? I mean, as a father, as somebody who wants to make sure he's on the right track, or other kids that I may have as well, and also other fathers out there. So what are some tips you have for that?

7:16 - Andrew 
Interesting enough, parents are not always as open as this to support their kids who want to work with their hands. So bravo to you. My hat's off to you that you're supporting him. He wants to go into a trade that is lifelong skills and that's in demand. And it's about supporting his journey. I don't know how many years in he's in or at least just starting off. But I don't know if he's in trade school or doing apprenticeship or maybe aspiring to own his own or operate his own business one day. And there's so many different avenues that you can take. But just letting him know that you're supporting him, that he's going down that path of wanting to work with his hands, it's a major step right there, because not every parent wants their kids to go into the trades. They want them to go to college, they want them to get a four-year college degree, which is, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not built for everybody. So I think already you're doing an excellent job of support.

8:21 - Andy 
Yeah, well, I appreciate it. I mean, I think, what do you think the impediment is with that, because I think most parents parents would like for their kids to be successful. So is there, is there a sense that maybe that's not the path of success? And what's the counterpoint to that?

8:43 - Andrew 
I think when parents, yeah, I think parents, depending what your background is, right? So if you've, if there's nobody in the trades in their families, right? If they've have higher education, They've gone to school. They want similar things for their kids. And I'm only equating things to my life in my journey. My father happened to be a small business owner and he actually sold to iron workers, welders, had a brick and mortar location in Brooklyn. So it was kind of in my blood, but it wasn't, baked in to tell me to go or work with my hands, it was more so go to college. It was almost just like, that's what you do. You go to college. And that necessarily wasn't sort of the right path for me because I went four years to school and came out more lost out of school than I was in school. So what was I doing? I was a programmer. I minded in finance. I went into business, went into IT, and then shared about, 11 story, I went into supporting people in the trades and providing tools and equipment. So I just, I kind of zigzagged around and veered off. But I think it's all about supporting your kids and having a different option. You know, going into debt and especially if you, you know, some people are in a position where their parents can help them pay for tuition, but a lot aren't. And they have to literally sign on that dotted line for this huge loan. And it's four years. And what we've seen is that kids are coming out of school and not getting the return of the ROI that they once did. And some of these, a lot of companies are not requesting to have degrees. So after four years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition and food and having on campus, you're not coming out with something that used to mean X amount of years ago, a job with a good salary. It's not like that anymore. So that's why I always say that the blue-collar skilled trades is a great option for somebody that doesn't want to go that path, that has a mechanical ability, that has a technical spark. You can do extremely well, especially with all the trades people retiring over the next five or 10 years, the opportunities there are just endless. It just depends how far you want to take it, what trade you want to go into, and it's all about climbing that ladder of success, but you've got to want it. That's really what it is at the end of the day.

11:34 - Andy 
Right, and I can relate to that. I mean, you know, he got out of the Marine Corps. He had, you know, the government was going to pay for him to go to school. He could have gone to basically any university he wanted, but this is what he wanted to do. He wanted to work with his hands, and I definitely see it as a great opportunity for my other kids. If that's what they want to do, I mean, if they want to design buildings, they can do that. If they want to build buildings and be a part of that process, welding and the HVAC electrical, I mean, there's so many different aspects of the skilled trades. What are some of the key ones right now that you see as becoming hot in the skilled trades?

12:21 - Andrew 
Hot areas. I think it really depends, obviously, what gets your juices flowing. For instance, I sat down with one of my family members and we did a podcast together and he wants to be an electrician. Now, he came out of corporate America. He was working for a large supermarket chain. He had 15 years of experience in a corporate world and now he wants to be an electrician because he's always been interested in electricity. So he's super excited and that was great to sit down with him for like 45 minutes and really get a better understanding more about his journey and wanting to go into the union. If that's what you like, then go into electrical. Also great opportunities as well. There's a lot of opportunities in these fields. I think it really depends what you want to do. If you want to go into welding, if you like to see sparks fly and flames, that might be the option that you want to take. But you need to get around the right people who are a little bit further ahead. I always say mentorship is extremely important. So somebody who's been welding for 25, 20 years, 25 years, Get around those people who have been successful. Maybe they've started their own business. Maybe you want to aspire to own your own business one day. Get around those people. Same thing with electrical. If you want to go into the union, then get around people who are in the union. How do you get into the union? What's the best way? How do you, after X amount of years, I want to get into past journeyman status. I want to be an X in my field. What certifications do I need to take? So it's getting around people who have positive mindsets, people who have been there and done that, because why reinvent the wheel? More or less, somebody has probably been there and done that.

14:14 - Andy 
Get around the right people, and that could take you much further along your path, or faster. Yeah, that's definitely a great advice, to just have the good mentorship around you, business owners. And sometimes, I suppose, you could get business advice from somebody that may be outside of the trades, right? Business is business is the way I look at it. So is there any suggestions you have for maybe somebody who is moving along pretty well in their trade and they do aspire to be a business owner? What are some examples of how do you reach out to business owners? I mean, is there any tips for that or just pick up the phone, like what do you suggest?

14:57 - Andrew 
The transition from being in the field to owning your own business, It's almost like it's completely separate. It's a whole different skill set. And a lot of people in the trade, some aspire to be business owners, some it works out, some it doesn't work out. I had the opportunity to be around somebody who was in the elevator trade and made that leap from technician to owning their own company. But in his journey, it was a family-owned, operated elevator service company. His father passed away, like literally just like passed away. And he was technician and now owner, literally like that month. And it was, wow, now what? I don't have that experience. What do I do? And he joined a CEO group. I happen to be a part of this. And it's a group called Vistage, where it brings in CEOs from different industries. You meet once a month. There's a speaker. They talk about something relevant. Something maybe about leadership, something about customer service, or just something about industry-related. And then as a group, you talk about issues. You talk about things that are going on in your business. You talk about stuff that could be affecting you in your business. Maybe it's a personal thing going on that could be affecting that, or it's a health thing going on. But you're getting around like-minded people who are driven, people who want to succeed, people who wanna see their businesses do well. And for me, every time that I get around those individuals, I'm like, oh my God, I didn't even know that. And I feel that a lot of times, it's the things that you don't know is the things that hurt you. And you're like, because you go through operating a business, and I've done this for almost 25 years, operating ToolFetch, that for the first, I don't know, 15 or so years, we were doing it ourselves. Myself and my brother and it was like and then finally finally joined the CEO group Started, you know going down the path of Asking for help and that's another thing is asking for help if you you need to ask for help to people and I Never asked for help and that was one thing that if I look back I should have asked for help X amount of years ago probably would have been in a different place right now Don't feel that you can't ask for help. Sometimes it feels a little bit like, ah, you know, I have nothing to provide, I have no value to give that person. But you never know that that person might say, you know what, I was young once, I was in that position, I want to give back, you know, to someone who is looking to get to a certain level. And you never know, you might get that person who might help you. And they might not, some people charge for their time, some people don't, but they see somebody who wants to succeed, you'd be very surprised that that person might help you out throughout your journey. So it is about getting around those individuals, getting around, like going into masterminds, people who are sort of within that world. If it's something in welding, something in HVAC, get around those individuals. There are Read.AI, if you go on Read.AI, There are forums that you go on. You can get on TikTok. You can follow some of the influencers out there. Some of them have their own businesses. You can get around them just to see what they're doing. But I think it's more so just get around people in your network. Even you can, and this is, I guess, maybe a little bit being assertive, you can even go down to your local plumbing supply. Go down to an HVAC company and ask them. You can walk in. I mean, it's gonna take a little bit of confidence to do that, but maybe you wanna speak to the owner. Maybe you say, I'm interested in the trade. Can I ask you some questions? They might be able to point you in the right direction. But the first thing is just asking for help and being open and being a sponge because that's gonna take you to the next level.

19:12 - Andy 
Right, right. Those are great tips. I mean, because I love what you were saying I mean, it takes humility and confidence to do that. I mean, because construction workers, you don't necessarily think about, the first thing that comes to mind necessarily isn't always humility, but at the same time, it's required, it's needed, and confidence is needed to go in and to this, I don't know, maybe like a plumbing warehouse and say, hey, you know anybody that could help me out here? Sometimes they might Embarrass you and say I leave me alone But that's part of that's part of it, right, but I think more times than not You know, you're gonna find people that are willing to help, you know, so that's a great. That's a great point. But Another question I have is just the misconceptions about the skilled trades That are out there. I mean, what are some of the the key ones out there right now that you're working to help fight? Help clear up?

20:12 - Andrew 
Well it's the old adages that it's I always say it's option B for the bad kids you know if you you don't do well in school you don't get good grades well there's always you can always be a plumber you can always be a welder and that has always been looked down upon I don't know why it's just it always looked like well if you have dirty fingernails and you're greasy and you're underneath the car well that's that's lower level that's that's not higher education and and there's been this push ever since um you know the 70s and 80s to really get people in college into four-year college degrees and and fulfill certain uh sort of jobs but what happened is you left all the people that behind that really needed to fix stuff and our bridges and our tunnels and our roads and this is why we have our our shortage you know where we need 330,000 welders by 2029, right? And why you need 80,000 electricians every single year up to 2030, and why you need 550,000 plumbers, and why there's so many manufacturing jobs that have open availability because all this has been done years prior. Shop class was taken out of school. People are not working with their hands. Kids are coming out. I don't know how to read a tape measure or swing a hammer. It's just not baked in them. But now I think we're turning the corner in a sense that social media has really helped. You have influencers in all different trades. You have women out there who are doing some great stuff in all different trades. So people are seeing it in real time, more so in the last couple years. And then kids get interested. They see someone a day in their life as an electrician, as HVAC. There's so many of those opportunities out there where you can follow somebody's world and get just a feeling, a taste of what it would be like to work. The other misconceptions, wages, right? This is always the pushback, especially I have a decent size following on TikTok. A lot of people come out on TikTok and say, why would you want to be working as an apprentice making $18 an hour. You can go work at Chipotle and make $20 an hour or McDonald's. This is always the argument back and forth. And then there are people who say, well, yeah, you can do that, but are you going to work your way up in corporate at McDonald's versus in the trades where, yeah, you're not going to make a lot at first, but you have to go through those four, four and a half years of being an apprentice to being a journeyman, to be an expert in your field. And maybe you want to go in the union, maybe you want to go open, on which way you wanna go or open your own business one day. I think that's sort of the misconception because then there's people who come out and say, I'm making $175,000. Yes, with overtime and I'm a part of the union and I'm making, I have benefits and I have a pension. So there's a lot of people who come and say and support and say, we do make a lot of money. It's just, you have to be willing to go above and beyond, do the extra work, maybe you have do over time, and you're gonna have to start somewhere. Perfect example, what I just mentioned about my family member. He's starting over, he's an apprentice, right? He was making a certain amount of money before in a corporate job, now he's switched over. Yes, he's taking a hit, but in the long run, he's gonna win overall with all the demand that the trades and all the people that are needed. So wages, it's about the old outages, Parents, sometimes, in your case, you're very supportive of your kids going into the trades. I think that's wonderful. Some parents are not supportive of that, and they need to have the education around what is possible to work with your hands, what kind of money can you make, what are the opportunities out there. Some people are just misinformed. So I think that system, to some degree, is a little bit broken, especially when kids are going through school. They're not given the opportunity to sit down with a guidance counselor and say, I want to work with my hands. They're being told, you have to go to college, a four-year college degree, that's how you're going to succeed. I don't know how many guidance counselors are really saying that you can be a plumber or a welder. You know, I have these posters off on the side you can't see, and there's a foundation called Explore the Trades. And one of the members, Kate Simoneau is on my foundation, Foundation, the Skilled Trades Advisory Council, and they send out these posters. They go to all these schools around the country, about 20, I think they're in 20, 25 percent of schools across the country, where it says, why consider a career in the trades? And it gives a breakdown. And it says, the electrician career path, and HVAC, and a few others. So when kids walk in to the guidance counselor, they could say, oh my God, wait, college, college, what's this trades thing? So it at least peaks their interests, especially if they're technical in some sort, or they like to build things and figure things out. But it's hard to get away from some of the stigmas, but it's me banging the drum, it's Mike Rowe banging the drum, and a few others out there that are really out there every single day talking about the trades, the benefits of the trades. I think we're getting in a better place than we once were. Trade school was up about 16% or so in 2023, and it continues to climb. The Wall Street Journal comes out with these articles, which is great, talking about the tool belt generation. Also, there are articles that are coming out from the Wall Street Journal talking about private equity is buying up HVAC companies, buying plumbing companies. So there's a lot of chatter around, which is a good thing, but I think we're getting in a much better place than we once were years prior.

26:14 - Andy 
Yeah, I mean, we definitely have a lot of advocates out there. Obviously, you and included in that, and I'm glad to hear the numbers are going up in terms of the education of the young people and learning about trades. As far as technology goes, obviously technology is changing every single day, and that's going to have an impact on the tradespeople as well in terms of their training, in terms of their work, and in terms of their hiring. What are impacts that you see in that area?

26:51 - Andrew 
What I like was a bunch of different areas, but VR and about training in the world of skilled trades. I had the opportunity a couple different times to try out VR and putting on the goggles. I was at SkillsUSA, which is, for people who don't know, they take about 6,500 of the best kids in the trades and they compete down in Atlanta over the summer. That show and I was walking around and there was a company called Transfer. This is one of companies that do a VR experience. I put on the goggles and all of a sudden I was in a world of I'm a lineman and now the power is out and now I'm climbing up the tower and now I'm on top of the tower and I need to get the power back on because there's a hospital that needs power. Now, and I think it was being timed so I was, you know, I had to take a couple of the wrenches out, and I had to loosen things up, and I had to make sure all my gloves were on, and just to be in that world. I also was in another segment for, I was in a warehouse, and the conveyor belt broke, and I had to weld, so I had to put the shield on, I had to take the torch, and I had to weld, and it had to be, you know, to some degree perfect, otherwise it wouldn't let me pass. It gets kids interested in wanting to work with their hands. And this is really a good way, especially when kids are young, and you bring that into the world of kids who love games. And I'm just thinking of my kids who love iPads, they love the Xbox, and it's a creative way to at least show kids what is possible working with their hands. And that technology is great, especially today because most of our kids playing games, they get some interested. There are other technologies like cobot welding. With the shortage in welding, they're looking for different ways to obviously automate certain things. Cobot welding basically runs off of sort of like a iPad of some sort. It's advanced technology. Kids are still working within sort of like a gamification type of environment, but it piques their interest versus, you know, obviously working in the field. Some people don't want to do that. They want to be more on the technology side. So stuff like that is really advancing things with the trades. You know, I've seen advancements in the world of just tools and equipment as well. And there's just so much technologies and safety behind it that much more than it was X amount of years ago. Constantly improving, all the manufacturers need to stay up on the latest trends, and it's really exciting to see where it's going, but more so on the safety side, that they're keeping the men and women safe in the trades to make sure that they get home to their loved ones.

29:54 - Andy 
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I like the VR piece, and I can definitely see how kids get excited about that. Yeah, but the one thing about it is the trades can be hard work, right? I mean, it is hard work, and so how do you encourage the young generation that we have that are so game-oriented and basically on the sofa too much, right? Like, how do you encourage them to get into some fields and trades that are hard work where you're going to probably like, We're sweating a lot down here already But how do you encourage that type of thing? Like this is hard work. You're getting out there What would you say to somebody like that?

30:39 - Andrew 
Look, I'm not gonna not gonna sugarcoat the trades are freaking hard, right? You're in the elements. Like you said you're down the south. It's humid It's it could be 90 plus 100 degrees, right? You're down in the sewers. You're you're welding in a in a shipyard yard of some sort, you're cramped, you're doing underwater welding, you're doing plumbing, you're going sometimes not the most pleasant places, residential or commercial, you're an elevator technician, you're way up high, you don't want to be obviously afraid of heights if you're sort of in that world. There's a lot of different things that People would say like, you know, I don't want to do that You do need to have a thick skin. You do need to Want to be in the elements you but on the flip side Versus somebody who is just in a desk job and it's just your four walls and you don't go anywhere. You're just You just you're sitting in front of a computer all day. Is that exciting that doesn't excite? Everybody and that's also why people like to get into this trades because it's different environments, you're on these big projects, you're building buildings, you're building bridges and tunnels and roads, and each time you can equate that if you are building a school, that you're building a school for education. If you're building a building, that's where people go to work. If you're building a road, that's how people get to work or get to places they need to get to. Or if you're working on somebody's car, you're fixing somebody's car so they can get somewhere. Boiler goes down, it's here in New York, it's been 10, 15 degrees over the last handful of weeks. Boiler goes down, it's freezing. You feel like a hero. You walk in and you fix someone's boiler, you feel like a hero. The power goes out on the lines. Definitely after a storm, I've spoken to many different linemen, that's not an easy trade. You're in the elements and you're trying to get the power back up, but once you get the power back up, that's a sense of fulfillment. That you accomplish something, that you turn someone's power back on, but it's not easy. It's not easy. It's not easy to go in that bucket truck sometimes. You gotta want it. You gotta have a thick skin. Look, you get into the trades, and this is just also feedback from a lot of people, some people need to have that thick skin because sometimes you get razzed around by your newbie as an apprentice, and some people can't take that. I don't wanna do that. Not going to treat me right. You got to want that. It's not for everybody. Some people don't want to be doctors. Some people just don't want to be lawyers. Some people don't want to be business owners. You got to want to work with your hands, but you got to expect that it's going to be hard work. It's going to be a journey, but in order to get to where you want to, you got to put the time and effort behind it.

33:40 - Andy 
And that's really what it's all about. Definitely. I mean, that ties right into what we're about as far as this podcast is called Enhance AEC, which is, you know, enhance the world around you in the architectural, engineering, and construction. So, obviously, today we're focusing on the construction side. And, I mean, the tradespeople are the people making it happen. You know, they're making the buildings that we're designing, which is really awesome, but they're making everything better, like you mentioned. You know, the roads. I mean, they're fixing things, too, you know. I gave the example of the boiler down here, but it would be more of an example of a chiller and making sure it's cool. I mean, you guys need AC in the summer too. But yeah, I mean, it's so awesome. And then back to the technology question, there's so many technologies that are being utilized. I know just talking to Charlie and the technologies in air conditioner. As an example. It's just neat to see how things are evolving every day. So it's not like you're necessarily beating on metal or something. You're actually working with high-tech things, and people don't understand them. The homeowners, the people that are driving on these roads and using electricity, they don't really understand how the electricity gets to their house. So it's a lot of high-tech things that these tradespeople are really working on. And this is the skilled trades we're talking about as well, right? I mean, is there a clarification there as far as trades in general versus skilled trades?

35:26 - Andrew 
I just think a little misconception out there is that it's easy work to some degree. You don't need to know a lot, which is the complete opposite. And this is, again, I'll bring up the example of a family member I sat down with what he needs to study and know for electrical work. You need to know your stuff. You need to know your math skills. Some of that stuff is hard work. It's not easy work. Just like you said, with HVAC and the technology, there is a person by the name of Tony Marmino. I don't know if you know him on LinkedIn. My podcast before and he goes around he's always talking about HVAC and I believe he's more on the sales side but it's interesting to see the technology how it's evolved over the years and how smart these devices have come and it's like you said nobody knows how to fix that really except if you were you're trained on that right when something goes down like your AC goes down and is blowing hot air, is the average person going to know what to do? They don't know anything. They don't know. They call somebody in HVAC. They come down and they fix it. They have to recharge it, whatever it may be. Maybe it's the fan that's not working. But you need to have those people to do that work. And my concern is, going back to what we talked about before with the shortages, is that there's not enough people to do that work, or there's not enough qualified people to do that work. And that's the worry is that it becomes where there's not enough people and you have to wait. So if you can imagine waiting two weeks in the dead of summer, and it's hot, or the winter, and they can't dispatch someone on HVAC because they don't have that person. There's too many jobs and there's too few people. That's the concern. And that's why also I advocate for the trades and bringing the next generation is is that we have enough people to fix the stuff. We are electrifying everything from EVs to appliances. There's more demand on the grid. You need these people, these individuals, who are smart people and good people to do that work. And that's why we just need to get more people into the trades and let them know that they could be in a lucrative career path, that they're in a trade, that it's not gonna be outsourced. It's not going to go overseas. Is not going to take over the trades. People will say robots are going to take over the trades. First of all, robots are more so coming for your white-collar job, and so is AI versus the blue-collar steel trade. So there's also job security. On top of, even if there's big projects not being done, there's always a demand for people in the trades. Right? Work to be done, something in your house goes down, plumbing issues or again HVAC issues or your AC goes down, there's always work that needs to be done. So you're in, you have a skill that's in high demand that will always be utilized as long as you stay up to date on things and keep upscaling your skill set. Yeah, definitely.

38:52 - Andy 
Well, I think I may need to getting more educated on the HVAC trades, because it sounds like AI is going to come take my job, right, as a white-collar engineer. So I guess I better watch out.

39:07 - Andrew 
Maybe Chad should GP, I don't know.

39:10 - Andy 
But yeah, Chad GPT is not going to climb up in somebody's attic and fix their air conditioner anytime soon, I don't think, right? No. So yeah, I want to go back to that Significant day that you mentioned earlier at the beginning of the podcast episode where you talked about ground zero and how that was just an impactful day And What was it about that that Made you say you want to start tool fetch and then later impact you to work as an advocate as well It's just what I saw that day, you know that day really kind of changed everything for me by those individuals some of them didn't have the right PPE on, didn't have the right protection on.

39:58 - Andrew 
And then a lot of them got sick years later by being on site and working in that environment. And it was just, it's one of those aha moments where you always say, that happens to somebody else. That wouldn't happen to me, but it happened to me. And I kind of say, look, terrible, terrible, tragedy and what happened down there, but it was almost like divine intervention. It was just, it was a calling. It sounds kind of corny saying it, but really it put me in a path, in a direction where I am passionate, mission-driven, and to me this is, I love this stuff. This is not work for me. Showing up every day, whether it's a podcast, this, my podcast, A Lost Art of the Skilled Trades, or an event of some sort and talking about the trades. I enjoy this stuff. So if it didn't happen, probably I'd be something in IT. I'd probably be a programmer of some sort or something with AI if I wasn't, my trajectory didn't change back then. So it almost had to happen. And to this day, it almost, every time I talk about it, it almost feels I'm back there again, and it just makes me realize that it really changed everything for the better and my path in what my mission is. Because it really, for me, it is a mission, and I fully support people in the skilled trades. That's really what it's all about, and try to get that next generation into the trade.

41:41 - Andy 
That's really awesome, and I thank you for sharing that. I know that's like a really, maybe tough to think back to that day, but also it was something that really helped direct your course of your life and your profession, but also it sounds like it's like a mission, which one of the things we really like to key in on here is the why, you know, like Simon Sinek talks about the why, but I think you've already hit on it pretty much, but is there anything else you want to say about what is your driving force for what you do each day as an advocate for the trades?

42:20 - Andrew 
To help people. The feeling of helping somebody, right? So if somebody comes to me and says, I'm not sure what I want to do in the trades, I can help them. If someone says, I'm stuck and I don't know what to do, I can help them. That I have different resources to help them and just kind of just being helpful to other people because I know people have been helpful to me. That's really – just being – serving to other people, that's been the most fulfilling portion of this whole thing and just getting sort of the gratification knowing that maybe somebody – and I only need one person to listen to my content, my podcast, whatever it may be. Say, that person says, you know what? I was thinking about college, but I always knew that I was good with my hands. I'm going to try out this trades thing and see how this goes. That is a win for me just because I made an impact of some sort. That's really what it's all about. And that just takes, for me, it's, again, showing up every single day. And I made really a commitment years back doing that whole 9-11 thing a little bit after to really support people in the trades, and I was doing it for so long behind the scenes. It took me a very long time, obviously, to get onto social media and share it with other people. But I'm doing this, and I'm working with our foundation, the Skilled Trades Advisory Council, where we're mission-driven, and we're advocating for people in the trades, and we're trying to recruit people in the trades, we're trying to retain people in the trades, and working with different organizations and educators It's just exciting to make an impact in people's lives and work around people who are also mission-driven and want the same thing. That's exciting. Awesome.

44:10 - Andy 
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing about your mission. I can see the energy that you bring. I mean, just the social media and the energy you bring today, I can tell it's a key part of who you are. It's not just trying to make a buck. Trying to you know do something for and that's so important to me I mean because if you don't have a if you don't have that driving factor then what's the point in it you know so I appreciate the energy you bring and just the passion you bring for that but you do have your own podcast the lost are the skill trades are there any any lessons or any thing that you would like to share about what you've learned as doing that podcast and the interviews and things you've done there?

45:03 - Andrew 
Yeah.

45:03 - Andrew 
It's great to hear people's stories and their journeys in the trades, whether speaking to somebody in welding, electrical, plumbing, a business owner of some sort, or an executive that has people in the trades underneath them. It's just to listen to where or how they got into the trades or the impact that they're making or the feeling of accomplishment fixing things for people, again, in different trades. It's been really exciting. I enjoy the conversations and just learning about somebody else's journey and literally giving them the spotlight and saying, tell us about your journey into the trades so you can help somebody else. I'm all about serving the audience and what value they're gonna get out of that episode because if it's welding based, I want that a person who's interested in maybe in welding is out of the 40, 45 minutes that we spend with a guest, that this individual gets value out of that, that they now know maybe a next step they can take in their journey. It's the same thing sitting down with someone who's plumbing and plumbing or electrical. If you get a business owner, talk about their struggles, talk about their wins, talk about how they made the transition from someone in the field to a business owner, and we talked about that a handful of minutes ago, that it's difficult to do that, but if you can listen to someone's journey, especially during a short period of time, 30, 45 minutes, maybe you get some nuggets out of that, and you can take that and help you on your journey. Enjoy the whole process. The podcast is on Spotify. It's on Apple Podcasts and all other major networks and YouTube. And every single Wednesday, I drop a podcast. If you join my newsletter on andrewbrown.net, you'll be up to date and can get updates about the podcast and the episode releases.

47:14 - Andy 
Okay, awesome. Well, definitely appreciate you sharing you on the podcast and everything. I just had a question that came to my mind I wanted to ask you. Just as a professional engineer and representing the E of AEC and then similar like with architects, is there anything that we could do better to collaborate as the professional side with the trade side of the AEC industry? I mean anything that comes to mind that could help better? It might be It might be either side. So you could be speaking to the trades or you could be speaking to me as a professional engineer.

47:56 - Andrew 
So any thoughts there? I can't comment on that, to be honest. That side of it, I can't comment. But if it's more so of the collaboration efforts of working on the side with the trades, I can sort of speak to that, per se. Area probably I can't give too much on, just to be completely...

48:19 - Andy 
Yeah, it might have been a curveball for you. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess part of it is, I think, maybe my opinion of it is, there's so much value out there and knowledge. Like when I go and talk to, for example, a welder, I can't do what they do, but yet I specify how to weld, or what weld needs to be done, a quarter inch fillet weld, or a full penetration weld. So I guess maybe just to answer it for myself then is I think there's so much knowledge and information. If you're a mechanical engineer, there's probably value that you're going to gain from the field, if you will. So that's kind of what one of the things, not to lead you or anything like that in terms of your answer, I just wanted to know if you had any feedback in that regard, but that's maybe something that I thought of as I was kind of going through the interview today. So that was a bit of a curveball question. Yeah, no worries.

49:24 - Andrew 
Look, if I can provide the value, I'll definitely, but I'll let you know when I can't. And I'm always trying to be super open, honest, and authentic about that.

49:34 - Andy 
Hey, I appreciate it. Well, I finally found one that stumped you a little bit. But no worries. So yeah, I mean, I think we hit all the high points I wanted to hit today, Andrew. I mean, we could keep going, obviously, but just to be respectful. I wanted just to say thank you for coming on, and you've already shared how to find the Lost Art of the Skilled Trades podcast, and then also your newsletter. Was there any other things that you wanted to share as far as like how to find you or any final points that you wanted to share today?

50:06 - Andrew 
Yeah, if you want to, Find out a little bit more about me. Had mentioned the Andrew Brown net Also, I am on all social media networks under Andrew Brown trades with an s at the end on tik-tok If you want to find me there on LinkedIn, I'm also very active I also have a YouTube channel under Andrew Brown trades a newer channel that I just started and I'm working on and If you want to find out more information about the skilled trades advice It is the skilledtradesadvisorycouncil.com, and you can see the different members that are associated with that foundation. And just as a whole, if you're interested working with your hands, if you're interested building things, the trades is a great opportunity for you to really just, you know, all that passion that you have about building things, that it might be a great opportunity for you. Don't let anybody tell you it's not a lucrative career path. If you want to go down that path, it has to be right for you. And if college is not your thing and you want another option, I'm here to help, at least give some guidance in that case. I've helped other people out there with their journeys. Certainly always open to help you out. If you want to, again, hit me up on LinkedIn, or TikTok, or even you can find the contact information on andrewbrown.net. I'm always trying to serve and always trying to help. Awesome. Well, thanks, Andrew.

51:42 - Andy 
We'll make sure we have some links to all that stuff in our show notes as well.

51:49 - Andy 
And I can say, you know, as obviously I know you from LinkedIn, so you have put on some good information there, TikTok style.

52:00 - Andy 
always bringing the value to LinkedIn as well.

52:03 - Andy 
So, yeah.

52:04 - Andy 
Thank you for being on the show today, Andrew, and just everything you do with the skilled trades.

52:11 - Andrew 
Thank you so much, Andy.

52:13 - Andy 
All right.

52:13 - Andy 
Take care.

52:14 - Madeline 
Hey, everybody.

52:15 - Madeline 
Thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhance.

52:18 - Madeline 
And please do like, subscribe, follow, and we'll see you next time.