0:00 - Madeline 
All right, so today on the show we had Chris Johnson, who is a field engineer for Simpson Strongside and a professional engineer. I was hoping you'd want to tell us more about what you found interesting in this episode.

0:16 - Andy 
Yeah, it was one that was right up my alley. Yeah. Because, you know, Chris is a PE and also he is a field engineer for Simpson. They make straps, connectors for buildings. It's obviously the a number of other things, you know, as far as structural steel and things, but anchors, but it's right up my alley. I use this catalog all the time, so I thought it would be interesting. He was in for a Lunch and Learn today. I thought it would be interesting to have him in and just talk about this company, Simpson. So we learned a lot about that. That was one big aspect of it, and the history of the company, and it was inspiring to me how this company came from where they did to the growth and really just being a dominance in the industry. Yeah. So that was one thing that I found interesting and it inspired me actually like what can I do to mimic that and what can I do to grow? And so we got into the weeds as well in terms of straps and we kind of nerded out a little bit in that which was fun. We learned about some trends in construction industry so and also we got into some personal and we of course we talked about what enhanced means to him. So those are some of the things that we discussed that inspired me, that got me interested. Was there anything that got you interested or you found interesting?

1:35 - Madeline 
Not that I'd bring up on the preview, but I thought the whole episode overall was really good. I liked how you said that it was right up your alley and this is something that you were really inspired to talk about, so I really enjoyed seeing it like that.

1:53 - Andy 
Awesome. Well, my name's Andy Richardson. This is our producer Madeline and I've been doing this 26 years. I'm a structural engineer and I'm still learning about the construction industry and the people that work in it. This is the Enhanced Podcast and our goal is to learn about people in the construction industry and their why so that you can learn yours. Let's jump to the intro.

2:22 - Madeline 
Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast, where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why.

2:29 - Andy 
Well, Chris, welcome to the Enhance podcast.

2:32 - Chris J 
It's a pleasure to be here, Andy.

2:34 - Andy 
I'm very excited about this. Yeah.

2:36 - Chris J 
Have you ever done a podcast before? Oh, well, actually, I had the honor of doing an internal company-only podcast where within Simpsons Strongtime, the company I work for, I had the opportunity to interview a lot of our leadership. I had the opportunity to interview our CEO, talk to a lot of the executive leaders, a lot of the people just in our company that are doing a lot of exciting things. Oh, wow. OK. Kind of driving the change within our company there. And so I was the host for that particular podcast. Now, that was never public facing. I would say it's internal only. So it was only available for Simpsons and Simpsons Strong Tie employees. Right. But it was a lot of fun. Just because I got to learn, one, about those particular people and those interesting backstories that they had coming into the company. And then just also, it was really on top of what was going on within Simpsons Strong Tie and kind of got an idea of just how big it was. Because a lot of times, you know, you're working in your job and you're doing the stuff that you do well, but sometimes you don't realize there's a lot of moving parts. Going on behind you there, and so that was a very exciting opportunity to be up front and center and learn about that stuff as it was going on.

3:59 - Andy 
Yeah, definitely. So that was an internal podcast, and so it wasn't on Apple iTunes or anything?

4:06 - Chris J 
No, it wasn't. So this is the first time that the public has heard me on a podcast. This is my official launch.

4:16 - Andy 
Oh, yeah, nice, nice. Well, yeah, that sounds good. And what was one of the interesting podcast episodes that you did?

4:25 - Chris J 
Yeah, absolutely. Well, so I really loved hearing everybody's unique stories, and when I say that, it was surprising a lot of times. We had a particular engineer. I'll call him an engineer because that's what he was, but he started out as a structural engineer with within Simpsons Strong Tie and he had a couple promotions within the company there and he's gotten all the way to a vice president role. And then I was talking with this particular gentleman and he shared, he's like, I never graduated high school. I was like, wait, what do you mean? Like you never graduated high school, but you got, you went to USC, you know, Southern California, like prestigious college. Like how in the world did you get to where you are now not graduating high school? Shared his very unique story that, you know, the circumstances in his life just didn't work out that he could finish high school and fortunate enough that he was able to enroll in a community college and be able to kind of put the prerequisites in order and be able to kind of draw that path. But really, when you hear that, you don't, you know, if I were to tell you if someone has to quit high school at a particular point, you're not expecting that later in life they're going to become a vice president for a company that does over $2 billion worth of sales. And so it was just so unique to hear that story and how he got to where he was and through that determination, fortitude, and just his innovation to get there. And then shocking enough, that wasn't the first time spoke to one of our senior leaders and they had a very diverse story like that. Also, there was a there's another gentleman within our company that was who's our head of a lot of our software solutions. A very sharp man and he was talking about how during his childhood he had a parent split and he went with his mother to live in the Caribbean's and he was you know as a teenager there he was he was essentially had a shop or a table on the docks there where he'd be selling trinkets to people you know tourists coming in and so it's just so amazing to think of I'm sure if you're on vacation you pass something like that you're not predicting that person to go on but that's absolutely what occurs and so it's just you know it's refreshing but it's also kind of a reminder that, hey, people come from humble beginnings to go on and achieve great things. That's one thing I really enjoyed about the podcast and just learn about everybody's unique backstory that they had to get to where they are today.

7:26 - Andy 
Yeah, awesome. It sounds like Simpson is such a well-known organization. What's it like working for Simpson Strongtime?

7:34 - Chris J 
Yeah, it's a great experience. I've been with Simpsons for over five years now. Before that, I came from the world of structural engineering as a consulting structural engineer and had an opportunity pop up and saw just after talking with the people. As a structural engineer, a lot of structural engineers are aware of Simpsons Strongtie. We provide structural connections, essentially. We're a manufacturer of structural connections and that structural connections is very vague, really, because we provide a pretty wide range of different products and solutions for those connections there. So as a structural engineer, I was aware of Simpsons Strong Tide, but then whenever I started working with them, it kind of, my expectations, it didn't live up to my expectations in a great It kind of blew past my expectations. And it's been a great thing to move into this new role and learn a lot of things about the product lines that I support, but also different segments, different career development skills that I've gained from this particular position in this company that I would never would have dreamed of coming into it. So that's been tremendously exciting. It's a very positive company. A lot of people that you talk with and work with, they've been with the company for a long time. At five years, I still feel like the new person a lot of times when I'm working with people within the company. So there's a lot of, to be able to retain those people, there's certainly a lot of positive energy that is maintained and keeps going. So that's refreshing from a day-to-day work environment, just to be working with those similar people with that same positive energy. A lot of that positive energy kind of spins off to the core values that the company has. And interestingly enough, the founder of the company, Barclay Simpson, he coined a lot of these values and we still utilize them to this day. There's Barclay's nine principles there. And a lot of those principles you just see through the leadership, through everybody that I encounter with the company. And that really does a great job of rubbing off. And I will say that we do a great job of kind of living up to our mission is to provide safer, stronger structures. And I think just having that mission and seeing a company that actually lives up to that mission has been a really great thing and really influences a lot of the day-to-day decisions goes on. So, I certainly worked with companies in the past that maybe didn't have a strong link between that vision or mission that they coined and seeing it come out day-to-day applications, but Simpson has definitely been a change in the positive direction for that one.

10:43 - Andy 
Yeah, I mean is it, what do you think is the attribute, what can you attribute the success of Simpson to primarily? I mean, Is it because they were basically first to market, or is it because they did something fantastic over the past 50 years or whatever, or is there something else? Sure. Well, I think there's a lot of things, right?

11:08 - Chris J 
I think they were the first to market. If you go back, the history of Simpsons Strong Tie, back in 1956, the gentleman Barclay Simpson had a neighbor that came to him, a contractor, and came to Mr. Simpson and said, Mr. Simpson, I know you have a basically a window press printing, window press operation where he manufactures screens for windows. Would you be able to, you got all this cold form steel, would you be able to kind of bend me a shape to be able to hang this two by six rafter? And so, Barkley was like, absolutely, I can do something. Let me see what we can do in the shop and we'll come back. And after doing that, he's like, hey, I think we got something here, you know? So that's, you know, dates back all the way back to 1956. So being one of the first, the first to come out with that, you know, a joist hanger, if you will, a mass produced joist hanger was a big deal. And I'm sure that, you know, anytime you're the first in an industry that's going to give you a leg up, you know, foot in the door. But I really think to be able to go from being the first to kind of expanding as much as we had, putting the customer first. And the customer is ever-evolving for who that customer is. For me, as my position with Simpson, I'm a field engineer and that customer typically is other structural engineers that I'm talking to and helping work through their designs to identify what would be a possible great solution that Simpson Strongtie has to offer. And so, you know, catering to structural engineers and hearing their needs and being able to design our products around their needs went a long way. But also on the same token, they're looking at the contractors. What do they need? What are their pain points? What are their needs? How can we design our products and solutions to be able to meet their needs and really thinking about what they, the customer, needs and letting that guide and everything from the distributors or the stores that we work with to sell our material, really hearing, hey, what works well for you? What's a pain point? What's something that we could do to help you to push it along? I think that probably is the the biggest factor when you talk about how to grow a company. It's interesting, I've thought about, I go to a lot of structural engineering firms, right? And I see a lot of different engineers and how they operate. And I do see that, it's been my experience that the engineers that seem to be doing very well, they listen to their customers or clients too. They listen to the architects that they're working with. They listen to the contractors that they're working with. They know what those pain points are, how to help them in the design, and then I see success and I receive repeat customer, repeat work going out of that. So it's certainly not a crazy idea of putting your customer first there, but it definitely is an impactful idea, I would say.

14:33 - Andy 
Yeah, having a good idea, though, too, helps. Yes, absolutely. So, I mean, it seems like you're constantly innovating as a company. Would you say that's a true statement?

14:46 - Chris J 
Yeah, absolutely. We have a very large staff of engineers that are just working on new products. That's all they do all year, looking at how we can improve our existing product line, and then we're looking at new ways that we can address other issues that are products don't even address. What are some issues out there in the construction field that we can help expedite the construction process? I constantly hear out in the industry is just how I've heard that construction is just behind the times as far as the technology goes. I'm sure you've seen some of those charts where if you look at automobiles or certainly software or computers where that arc is gone. It's almost like a hockey stick shooting straight up. Whereas the construction industry hasn't really seen that huge jump that you've seen in other forms of technology. So that's, I think that's what we're doing is we're working on turning it into that hockey stick so you see that efficiency and that technology really jump up there. And there's just items that you just have to look at ways that are currently being done and maybe the status quo and just are accepted, but is there a possibility that you can improve upon that, make it a more efficient, more cost efficient, more time efficient solution for the contractor? And that's the tricky part, right? Those ideas aren't always evident, but a lot of times we have to, you know, listen to our customers and be able to identify that and then spend some time, you know, working through that, working through R&D process and working through that. And it does help, you know, new ideas, innovative ideas. We have a large testing arm to our facilities. We have multiple testing facilities. We have an incredibly large one out in Stockton, California, just outside of San Francisco, where we do a lot of tests, a lot of full-scale tests for our particular products there. And so it helps to be able to see those products get through that test. One of our engineering directors always says that one test is worth 10,000 expert opinions. And it's certainly true. You get to actually see the failure, the pinch points, if you will, going through that test. And you can improve the product at that point. So it's great to have the knowledge and the instincts from engineering standpoint to say, hey, I think we should go in this way, but being able to actually put those thoughts to it, put it up to the mark there and put it through testing goes a long way, too.

17:45 - Andy 
Yeah, that's interesting. What do you like most about being a field engineer? A field engineer? That's your role.

17:53 - Chris J 
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. So it's a unique position, right? Yeah. One of my fears whenever I was making the jump from consulting structural engineer, you know, putting my license, my PE seal on drawings and seeing projects go out the door, was that I was going to almost get kind of removed from the engineering process. You know, I went to school, you know, civil engineering, been a structural engineer for 14 years leading up to Simpsons Strong Ties. So that's, that's the world I knew. And that's just, you know, my day day life was being a structural engineer. So I was very concerned that I was going to get removed from that whenever I made the jump over to a field engineer with Simpsons Strongtime. But that has not been true. I've been able to kind of keep my sharpness as an engineer. I've learned a lot of new things from a technical standpoint that I didn't expect. So that's been great. But I think the thing that I love most is just the lack of better word, the social component of it. Just getting out, talking, engaging with structural engineers, but just understanding them and seeing the different work that they get into and do and be able to help them and be able to establish that relationship so that I can, that they're comfortable to come back to me with a technical question or something like that. And see that I have worth for them from a technical standpoint. I'm not just a salesman showing up at the door there. Just being able to draw on those connections and then see actual benefit to their finished engineered package that I can make contributions to that. And it definitely, that technical side, But if I don't have that social kind of connection at the front there, it's hard to provide that technical side because you don't get the questions, essentially. Right. Yeah, I mean, they make assumptions.

20:02 - Andy 
They, being the engineers, make the we. We make assumptions, I suppose, right? Like, what are some of the things that we're getting wrong as engineers? And by the way, you work with all products at Samsung? Like structural, wood, steel?

20:18 - Chris J 
I mean, I qualify it as all commercial products, which as you know, a commercial building could be constructed with wood, structural steel, concrete. So it's really a wide range. Now we do have some products that fall off the scope there, but a large portion of the Simpson products are stuff that will come up in conversation with engineers and something like that. But like light gauge is a part of your purview.

20:45 - Andy 
So I guess my question was, what are some things that we're getting wrong with design? So I'm giving you the right, you can rail on us, and I asked a fair question. So yeah, what are we getting wrong?

21:02 - Chris J 
Engineers are creatures of habits, right? Is what I've heard. But I've seen it, because you're trying to be efficient in your design, and you're trying to not you in particular, but just the structural engineer. We establish those typical details, right? We have those because we know they come up a lot on projects. So we can quickly just pull from a library of details to be able to put that on there and address a lot of common situations on a particular project. What I see most common and an easy thing I think would be for engineers to structural engineers to be able to incorporate is take a look at those typical details and see where, identify the old technology in those typical details where a new technology has come along to replace that. Something that drives me crazy is I'll just see the common occurrence where it's a seamy wall, concrete masonry wall, it's a grouted seamy wall, and then there's a floor slab or a roof deck attaching into that. And the classic detail is that that roof deck comes and hits the CMU wall. And then supporting that, making that connection right there is just an angle connection that's run along. So that angle gets welded or screwed into that roof deck. And then making the attachment from the angle to the CMU wall is some type of anchorage. And what I see a lot is actually an adhesive anchor, which from Simpsons Strong Tie standpoint, great. We manufacture adhesive anchors at the contractor and the engineer wants to use adhesive anchor, great, that'll work. Now, where we can improve a small, easy win, where we can improve on efficiency, is look at that adhesive anchor and say, hey, is there a better anchorage right there? That's where something like the Titan HD screw anchor to replace that adhesive anchor would be a great option and would, one, provide the loads that the engineer is looking to achieve, and two, would be a lot quicker install compared to adhesive anchors. So you're saving time, you're saving essentially manual labor out there, and you're helping the construction project. And I see a lot of structural engineers saying that, hey, our ultimate goal is to make the most cost-efficient design to meet the needs and requirements for the building owner. And that's one thing that can help make a more cost-efficient design. So I see a lot of those typical details. I get the opportunity to see a lot of different projects from a lot of different engineers, and I just always see those older details that have been transferred over from project to project and just haven't been revisited to take a look and say, hey, what technology is out there now that I could improve upon in this design? And ultimately, like I said, at the end of the day, it's to a better product. Achieve the same performance, you know, load or deflection performance that you're looking for, but do it in a better way. Yeah. That's an easy one, I would say, I recommend for a lot of structural engineers.

24:19 - Andy 
I mean, what's the difference, like, kind of going down this a little bit more on this very specific scenario, but what's the cost implication of a Titan HD versus the Epoxy Sure. Yeah.

24:32 - Chris J 
Well, if you're talking about one, it's, it's probably, you know, you gotta be looking at scale, right? Uh, scale size. So if you, if you're looking at a large, uh, manufacturer, a large warehouse, um, looking at, um, you know, a hundred thousand square foot building, um, there is the opportunity, um, to make that switch and see some, um, you know, significant financial gains right there, uh, from, you know, just swapping out, taking our example where we've got the roof deck and the CMU wall tying together, swapping out adhesive anchor for that Titan HD. It's going to be pretty close from a one-to-one standpoint. Of course, one adhesive anchor cartridge system, about the same size as your water bottle there, is going to run you anywhere between $20 to $30, but you're going to be able to get multiple installs with that particular one, whereas one particular Titan HD anchor may run you anywhere between $5 to $10, depending on the coating and the material you're using. So once you kind of factor it out there, you're going to see a lot of similarities from a material cost standpoint. It's really where you start factoring in, okay, how quickly can the installer install this? And also, how much easier, how much less prone for misinstall with this Titan HD compared to the Adhesive Anchor B. So there's Anytime you have more steps involved with the process, you're just opening up the opportunity for someone to stray from those steps, essentially. And so, if you can minimize those steps, generally speaking, it's going to be a more efficient, less chance for a misinstall compared to that. So, once you start factoring in that, that's where you see significant savings. So, it's hard to put an exact number on it.

26:21 - Andy 
The anchor itself is about one to one, but you also have this cartridge, but there's a lot of other factors, such as the insulation. Absolutely. You don't have to clean out the hole, et cetera. By the way, we have people that are very technical engineers, and so they're eating this up, and then there's others right now that are starting to- I apologize. No, no, that's fine. I asked the question because I think it's interesting, but I want I want to get into more of, we were talking about this hockey stick, and do you see, what are the challenges that prevent that hockey stick to really take off? What are impediments right now that are impeding us from taking off in the construction industry? Wood frame, light gauge steel, you guys are in the steel market, it a little bit too. So what are some things that we can pull back in that and that may be from your direct perspective or just more at large?

27:30 - Chris J 
Sure, at large. I'm thinking of a lot of new products we've come out in the past and some of the obstacles we face. So it varies, right? Sometimes you just get where someone is a little reluctant to accept the new technology and that's on the engineering but also on the contractor side. Of the two teams there. You could have an engineer that just doesn't want to venture outside that box. They're concerned that, hey, if I go down this design, it may not be as good as I think, and then I'll end up with an unhappy contractor who affects choosing me for their next project or something like that, or an unhappy architect that has to deal with something because it was a new product that I wasn't familiar with and I went with. I see that as obstacles there. And then also on the contractor side, sometimes contractors just are taught one way to do it, and then that's the way that they know how to install a particular product, and they're never going to venture outside the well-worn path there. So I think in both instances, it takes training, training on the product, training on the application, when it is a good solution, and when maybe you want to go back to the traditional method. So really having those conversations. If you're an engineer, architect, and you're approached by someone in the manufacturing side that has a new product, have that conversation. Try to have them discuss the application that you're looking at and see if there's any potentials you know, pitfalls with using it in that particular application. Having those conversations I think is very, very helpful. And, you know, I'll share just as a young engineer before I joined Simpson, sometimes I was just hesitant to call up those manufacturers to have those conversations. And it was just sheer, you know, I always, what I've learned, and I know I heard it from somewhere else, was just being open just showing your ignorance, essentially. And there was a lot, as a young structural engineer, I just didn't wanna show my ignorance because I was so afraid that someone would see that ignorance and be like, well, they don't know anything. Where in reality, I probably didn't know a lot, but I was just so closed off on showing the stuff that I didn't know to my detriment, right? So all this to say, I highly recommend if you're an engineer, architect, contractor, listening, definitely reach out to those experts, to those manufacturers, and really ask those questions, no matter how silly the question you may think it is or how simple the question may be. Ask those questions and really talk it out. On the contractor side, as far as the installers putting it in, it really comes down to training and really showcasing, hey, this is how you're doing now, this is the opportunity with the new product how we can make you that much quicker that that comes down and it's it's work right and there's a lot of contractors out there and there's a lot of a lot of people you have to enlighten essentially of the new way going forward so it does take you know it takes a little while yeah and I mean from a technology standpoint there's a lot of cool tools out there now but there there certainly is capital expense sometimes on those contractors to be able to get those new, acquire those new tools. So that is kind of an obstacle, just a stepping back, looking at the general construction industry, that kind of initial capital expense is difficult for some people to kind of bite the bullet and adjust. And it's, you know, as you very well know, just the software that some of the analysis software. I'm sure you see potential in some of them, but there's a heavy price tag at the front there, so I'm sure it's always a balancing act. Oh yeah.

31:47 - Andy 
I mean, we have a whole suite of software. I mean, you know because you practiced, but yeah, I mean, and obviously, or one thing about us is we do a variety of project types. So, we do wood frame, we do gauge. We do structural steel. We do concrete. Each one, I mean, now, you know, we have one program that's kind of our Swiss Army knife as well. Intercalc. It does a little bit of everything. But yeah, I mean, each one has its cost. If you get into structural steel, you're probably going to need something like a Risa 3D or, you know, concrete is ETABS. Each one of these has a cost associated with it. It's not as bad as I guess like a forklift or a lift on a job site or a heavy excavator on a job site, but it definitely has a cost. And engineers aren't cheap either. The software is actually not a big expense at all. Engineers are not cheap, so that's the biggest thing.

32:50 - Chris J 
What about the training required? Of course, anybody can, I'm sure these software manufacturers would love to do a four-hour training on their new software, but being able to become efficient in the design, how do you factor that into your business?

33:08 - Andy 
That's a big, like, million-dollar question, you know? I mean, because it's not, in my opinion, it's not the training. It's the process. That's what I've figured out, and that's what I'm realizing, and only recently, because the software facilitates the process, right? Because, I mean, we could manually calculate things, and it speeds that up, right? Now, you get into like moment frames where you're, you know, or like multi-story moment frames where you have p delta, and then you have load factors, and all these things. That's where the software helps with that, right? I mean, I can use the portal method and solve it, but it's an approximate method, so I'm getting pretty nerdy myself now. But I guess my point is the software facilitates the process. And so if your process stinks, it's still going to be inefficient. So that's what I've found to be the case. But the question I have is, is Simpson going to design an all-house, an all-building tool for us here soon? That way we can help facilitate the process.

34:22 - Chris J 
Well, I'm not involved with those decisions there. Who knows? I think we are- That would be a great program though, wouldn't it?

34:34 - Unidentified Speaker 
Absolutely.

34:35 - Chris J 
We are aggressive with our growth program. I know something that a lot of structural engineers don't see is we have a trust, wood trust plate design software. Okay. We'll design that full wood truss with all those plates. Now that specifically software lends itself to that wood truss plate manufacturers. They do a lot of that designs in-house and so we sell that software to those particular companies there. But it wouldn't surprise me if that's something that we add a little bit later on just because we're looking for ways to grow. Incorporate some of the stuff we have because if you look around we have a very wide range of softwares that appeals specifically to structural engineers. Once you start piecing this software plus this anchorage designer software plus this fastener designer plus this wood joist and once you start putting it all together you're getting pretty close to the kind of complete building package there. I wouldn't be shocked if it comes down the road Well, Forte, I mean, it's probably in that same realm.

35:50 - Andy 
You're familiar with that one, right? And it does a lot of that where it'll have a joist and it hangs off of a beam, and it'll tell you what hanger you need. We don't actually use Forte for a couple reasons, but what the, I guess the mother version of that, because the mother company of Forte is Weyerhaeuser, which is I-Joyst and such, but they have one called Javelin. It is a whole house, a whole building designer for wood. It works very well, but I just was curious if Simpson had something like that in the works. Another one we use, the biggest one we use from Simpson right now that we actually pay for is the cold form steel.

36:39 - Chris J 
Okay, which does about 98% of a cold form building. Yeah, it's it's a very nice program.

36:45 - Andy 
So and I'm not you guys aren't paying for this right today, but maybe maybe you can at some point but You know it I found it to be a good software, you know One of the things I like about Simpson we talked about that because you did a lunch and learn for us today By the way, appreciate that for our SEA but one of the things I like about Simpson obviously our fan of the product. I mean, some of the, just being objective, some of the things, like a joist hanger at this point, you know, 50 years later, a joist hanger is kind of a joist hanger, right? I think there's probably some innovations you've done to sort of stay ahead of the curve, and you try to keep very cost effective. But one of the things that I really like about Simpson is the catalog formatting. There's other, you know, things out there that I just don't, I don't the formatting. It's hard to read, and I'm a specifying engineer, okay? So what that means is I need a hanger. It needs to be this, and I need to be able to find that hanger and specify it easily and quickly, and so Simpson's done a great job of organizing that information and making it easy for an engineer, a specifying engineer, to specify that, do our job basically. So that's one of the reasons I like Simpson. I mean, my catalog.

38:08 - Chris J 
Here's mine.

38:09 - Chris J 
It's all tabbed and everything.

38:11 - Andy 
Excellent. These are our HTS. As an example, there's one. This is one of my other engineers. This is from 2020, so we're a little out of date, but I got to move my tabs over. Exactly.

38:29 - Chris J 
This is an interesting conversation related to this that we've been having internally. Before softwares and web apps were so dominant in our industry, everybody had that Simpson catalog, right? Everybody had it tabbed up like you have it. And when I'm making my rounds, I see that a lot still. But we are seeing a shift in the demand for alternative options for that particular information. So that's been a fun challenge to try to identify that. We think we've done a great job with the display of our loads and printed literature, but how do we take that over? Obviously, the easy segue is just make those printed literature available in PDF format, which we do. And one thing I truly appreciate is actually when you go into our catalog on our website and you see the table of contents and it says page 56, that's the page on the PDF document, which there's not that jumping around Now, it's such a small thing, but also a lot of people, as we get a younger workforce, essentially, a lot of those engineers and architects are demanding different means there. So it's been a challenge, like I said, a fun challenge, where we've had to come up with what's a good web app to be able to showcase that. And we're also seeing the trend transition from going to where we have a software that downloads to your desktop compared to one now that is more cloud-based. And how does that work out? And there's a lot of moving parts behind the scenes. What kind of software developers are out there and what kind of work do they want to do? When we're posting jobs for software developers, you're seeing a lot more software developers that want experience in cloud-based software. So that's almost the industry outside of the AEC industry is pushing everything to cloud-based type of software programs. So that's been interesting and just trying to identify, well, you know, 10 years ago we were thinking everything was going to end up on your computer screen and now you have, you know, engineers that are comfortable with working off their iPhones. So it's how do we get that information? How do we get that same information in that same, in a different format, just as easily, you know, as well known as putting tabs in your catalog. So that's, you know, that's been a major push for us to invest, you know, put investments and put resources in developing that, but it's been interesting. Well, I mean, it's constantly changing too.

41:22 - Andy 
Yeah, because it's like the Wild West right now. You've got that push. I mean, Bluebeam is a big player because people are putting the Simpson catalog on Bluebeam and doing searches there. Again, not to be one thing, but that's the most popular. I mean, you've got people that use Adobe, but I think most of the engineers are, I would say, probably 80%. That's my guess. Yeah, it's Bluebeam. And so they're putting it right into Bluebeam and searching it. I mean, I have it, and I just go and search right in if it's a thing. I like my catalog, but sometimes you need to just use Bluebeam. And then I'm a big phone guy, but also there's AI, and now you have AI apps. We're trying one out right now, and you can upload the catalog to that. And do searches. So that's an option. Have you heard much about that?

42:21 - Chris J 
Yeah, we've definitely looked at AI and incorporated it and seen, you know, it's interesting to hear the different ways you can use AI. A lot of times I think I'm just the victim of what you do. You may think, well AI can help me in this, and then whenever you start talking to some of your colleagues that don't necessarily know the field engineer, you learn that they're using AI for a totally different reason and it's really eye-opening to learn about the different ways. We had a benefit at our latest internal engineering summits. We had our director of AI come in and give a presentation. It was just eye-opening for myself to learn about all the different ways that you could utilize AI and just the different methods associated with that. I'm not going to share it with you today because I'm no expert but it was just it was very eye-opening to say the different type of approaches that you could have with AI and how that could you know two different approaches maybe what you need maybe not necessarily one specific approach but drawing from different approaches to see to improve upon your process and ultimately get a better product there.

43:36 - Andy 
Yeah, awesome.

43:37 - Andy 
So I want to go open this catalog up. I do want to of questions kind of specific about straps. Is that okay? We can give it a shot. I may have to get that. And we're getting hopefully not too down in the weeds, but what's the most popular uplift strap like for a rafter-to-wall? Oh, rafter-to-wall. Well, I was going to say...

44:00 - Chris J 
Or truss, maybe. The most popular uplift strap is that coil strap, hands down, where it just comes in, like I said, it's in the name, comes in a coil and contractors can just have that out there and you know some of my co-workers joke saying it's the structural duct tape where that gets it gets specified by engineers a lot showing on drawings a lot and then contractors just they love just being able to use it basically pull it out and snip it and go yeah and they can run they can they can run with that and that's just been it's it's a hugely popular product in the construction industry.

44:39 - Andy 
But you got to know how to specify, right? Absolutely. Yeah, there is.

44:44 - Chris J 
Going back to what engineers could do better. I've certainly seen drawings where they're a little too ambiguous with the call out of those certain straps. And certainly, you know, I've seen different lengths shown and sometimes if you don't give that contractor the guidance, then you have no idea what they're gonna actually incorporate. Incorporate. So, certainly, yes.

45:08 - Chris J 
There's a balance between you can get two in the weeds with your specifications, I think.

45:14 - Andy 
Absolutely, yeah.

45:15 - Chris J 
And you can obviously leave too much. A little too generic, thinking that the contractor's going to be working in your best nature.

45:25 - Andy 
Because, I mean, a CS16, I guess, is like a 16 gauge or something. But the number of nails matters on each end. Absolutely. Yeah. Aside from wall straps, what would be the most popular roof strap? I mean, I've got this one pointed out, but it could be a different one.

45:45 - Chris J 
Yeah, the most popular roof strap, you know, it's interesting, just the basics, H2.5A is about the, it's probably the best seller, if you will. Okay, yeah, still the best. It's like the entry-level hurricane tie, essentially, at that point.

45:59 - Andy 
I think for us, the challenge, I mean, I like the H2.5a, it's just that it's a little, because we're in a high wind area.

46:08 - Chris J 
Sure, so the entry level probably isn't working for this area.

46:12 - Andy 
That doesn't quite cut it for, it probably cuts it for 60% of the things, but it doesn't cut it for 80. I like the 80-20 rule, so the MTS-16 is the one I like, and the HTS. I don't know why, but I always put on there, you could switch it out for an uplift capacity of equal value, and they can do that. There's pros and cons of that strap, but I like it because you can wrap it under. One of the things that I do, I was going to segue a little bit into this piece, which is I do, and our company does, we have five straps. So I like the movie Remember the Titans, Coach Boone, and he says, you know, he's got, he used the Veer option. He has three plays, and it's like no cocaine. You just keep using it, and it works. It's the same type thing. We have five straps, and we just use them for everything. I think it's a great approach. I tell everybody, okay, use an S1. Use an S2. That's like our internal nomenclature. S1 is an MTS strap, and S2 is an HTS strap. They're like, well, we need to use this and that. I'm like, no, you don't. Go back and look at your something you can value engineer. Now sometimes you just gotta use a different strap, but that's, I don't know, that was just a little segue I thought I would throw in there.

47:43 - Chris J 
I'm glad you bring that up because I've seen, I've taken a look at drawings where I've seen, Anchorage in particular, I've seen where an engineer using those typical details They may have a typical detail where they have a screw anchor show. And then on another typical detail, just a little bit different conditions, but ultimately when you zoom back, it's the same kind of condition. They'll have an adhesive anchor. And then over here on, maybe not on a typical detail, but on a section, you'll have another engineer that works on it and they show an expansion anchor. And so then you have three different anchors for a very similar condition. The contractor installing it has to use these three different anchors, and then the person that's responsible for doing the takeoff and purchasing the product, they have to look at all these different scenarios there. I think there's a huge benefit in your methodology. Remember the Titans. We're just going to have these five particular products that are going to handle 90% of our type of design. And we're going to be efficient in that. There may not be as much efficiency in that you're maxing out every connector per se, but from a time standpoint, I mean, from a design standpoint, you're saving time. From a construction standpoint, you're saving huge amounts of time because they don't have 20 different products that they got to match up. And also, when you reduce those amount of steps, you usually reduce the possibility for a mis-install. There's huge advantages with going with that approach there. It's okay if there's a little bit of redundancy in the design, because ultimately you're making for a much more efficient design and construction process. Any additional costs that you may see from that redundancy is going to get taken away with the savings on time and cost money there.

49:48 - Andy 
Yeah, awesome. See a project where it only happened once where this MTS because it's a twist strap the it's hard to say this over a podcast but the the vertical leg of that kind of is offset from the the rafter and so there was a like a miscommunication or misunderstanding about that because if it you can either wrap it under the plate or you can you can attach it to the side of the stud but if you're gonna attach it to the stud you have to align that stud kind of offset a little bit from the rafter. So that was a bit of a concern, I guess, of the contractor. I was like, well just wrap it under the plate. But the problem was they already put the sheathing on there, so it was kind of a challenge that we had to get through.

50:31 - Chris J 
I would say always look at the footnotes of any of our load tables that we have, because you're very likely to find some helpful piece of information like that. And then just, you know, call us up. Call your local field engineer. Or call our 1-800 number. We have great customer service that will, they'll either know the answer off the top of their head or they'll quickly connect you with someone that does. And then you can, you know, you don't have to spend too much time spinning your wheels trying to figure out, okay, what can I do that would be acceptable? We can give you, because we see a lot of, you know, we get a lot of calls across the country and we see a lot of common problems. Even if they occur, you know, 10 different spots the country, but that's a common kind of install condition that comes up. What I'm trying to say is you're not alone if you run into a particular condition. Just give us a call and we're more than happy to help.

51:25 - Andy 
Okay, awesome. That's good to know. So we threw the engineers under the bus for a minute and asked them what they were doing wrong, but I should be positive too, right? What are we doing right?

51:37 - Chris J 
What are you doing right? Are we doing anything right? Yeah, absolutely. One of the coolest parts being a field engineer is, like I said, going around and talking to people. And I'm just always amazed at a lot of the engineers that I come across and how sharp they are and how, a lot of times, how insightful their questions are. Anytime I'm bringing a new product to them, they'll have very insightful questions that kind of force me to think. I was like, oh, I never thought of that. Let me get back with you because that's an interesting application an interesting scenario associated with that. And that all comes with the unique experience and just unique knowledge that those particular engineers have. So I'm always impressed with that. And just, you know, anytime I do have a new product, I'm almost excited to talk about it, knowing that I want to talk to a lot of engineers right now, because I'm going to learn a lot whenever I start bringing this up. You know, I know this XYZ, but someone's going to throw a curveball and something out of the end is gonna come up and it's gonna add to my product knowledge once it's all said and done. So that's always impressive that I think a lot of people are doing right. And like I said with the typical details, I think that's an easy pickup. I think a lot of engineers have incorporated new technology pretty efficiently with jumping to BIM. A lot of engineers push for that Bluebeam because they're so quick in Bluebeam that they can do their markups and they can quickly draw up something within that and send it out to a contractor and alleviate a field condition just through that efficient means there. So I'm really impressed with the speed that this generation, I say generation, pretty much anybody working as a structural engineer now is what I consider this generation of structural engineers, just how quickly they can address issues from a design and also in construction standpoint as well.

53:42 - Andy 
Yeah, awesome. So moving on a little bit here and talking about you personally. So you said you did some coaching.

53:51 - Chris J 
Yeah, I do. I do. It's been a pretty awesome experience. So I have three sons. They're all active. So we try to get them involved with recreational sports. And so some of them, I really enjoy sports just in general. I love watching it and love playing it as a kid. And so I've had opportunity with a couple of my son's teams to come in and they'll need coaches. And I'm like, well, I'll be glad to do that. So the first couple of seasons that I did, I was kind of drawn upon my experience growing up. And then once In particular, my oldest started getting to a little bit higher level of players, just older age, and they were able to accomplish a little bit more. I had a moment of reflection. I was like, I need to step up my game from a coaching standpoint. So I really started looking in, well, how can I improve upon that? And that's just been such a fun journey, not just from the technical coach background, basketball and baseball with them, not just from the technical standpoint, but also how can you be most effective as a coach? And what are some of the communication skills to make that happen? And how do you plan a practice so you make that practice as impactful for them? And at the end of the day, they're looking to have a good time. They're looking to enjoy it and get their energy out. How do I maintain that they improve and get better, but also have a really good time at practice and they want to come back next week and they want to continue to learn and get better and don't have burnout right there. So it's been a lot of fun and just something that I've been able to invest my time in and kind of take it as a hobby, but treat it in a way that I did with engineering. Whenever I first finished school and got out and as an engineer, you quickly realize after you graduate, there's a lot of stuff you don't know. So that's almost the same transition I had with coaching youth sports is that even though I've been playing basketball my whole life, I quickly realized there was a lot that I don't know. And so just that learning process has been a lot of fun for me and just something different. I think we all, You know, we, I think a lot of people enjoy the careers, but there's always that segment where it can somewhat feel redundant. And so just seeing that different avenue where I've been able to learn a little bit more through coaching, it's just offered a kind of another outlet, if you will. And so I've just enjoyed it tremendously. If anybody's considering it, I would recommend it, but I would also recommend, hey, look in that resources out there. I know there's a lot of resources with any sport right there and finding the right ones. I was able to find through a baseball, there's a affiliation, USA Baseball, and they have great kind of teaching tools. And I just really love that. And it's just being able to find the right teaching tools to properly teach you, not just, you know, scroll YouTube for the rainbow. The professor? Exactly. He's pretty good though. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It'd be exciting if I could teach the kids that. But finding that correct curriculum, and then you learn something, and then you're able to teach that. And any time you can teach something, that's when you really know that you have a firm grasp of that material. So it's always, it's a unique challenge and something that's been very rewarding.

57:42 - Andy 
Yeah, how long you been doing that?

57:45 - Chris J 
Probably a couple years now. Particularly the last two or three years where I really had that kind of thought is like, well, I really need to take this a little bit more serious. Not taking it serious for them, like, hey, we're going to win, but more so, hey, I need to be prepared when it comes to practices and I need to showcase that, you know, the stuff that I'm teaching is coming from a good space in that I'm trying to do it for the kids and Really educate them, but also keep it in a fun environment too.

58:19 - Andy 
That's a hard balance. Are you a real competitive person?

58:23 - Chris J 
I think I personally am, but for the most part, I've been able to remove that kind of competitive nature in the coaching spot. I haven't lost it on any refs or anything like that. It's a learning process. Whenever you recognize that, I think back as being a kid, I think back, there was just some aspects that either it took me multiple times for me to learn something or just, you know, I didn't have the coordination. I didn't have that, develop that coordination at that particular age. So, remembering that as a coach and saying, hey, you know, it may, you know, we may preach a particular move or a technique the whole season and they may just not get it and that's okay. Yeah. And, you know, next season, we'll get back at it and that's okay. And just keeping that in mind and really just keeping in mind that it's for them to have fun and experiment with competition and the competition component of winning, but also the competition component of losing, accepting defeat. It's hard. Yeah. That's something that everybody's got to go through. So just being able there to help them guide through that process has been, like I said, very rewarding.

59:39 - Andy 
And how old are the boys?

59:41 - Chris J 
They're 11, 9, and 7.

59:43 - Andy 
Okay, so yeah, they're just kind of especially getting into that as far as, well, different ranges of course, but you're starting to get into that where you actually sweat a little bit.

59:55 - Chris J 
Yeah, especially with the 12-11 baseball teams, some of those kids are starting to throw a lot harder and hit a lot harder, and to be out there practicing with them, it was like, I need to take this serious because I might end up with a black eye if I'm not looking right.

1:00:14 - Andy 
Yeah, this is serious stuff. Well, that's fun that you're doing that and really giving back and I imagine there's probably some lessons too. I mean, does any of that transition back to, you know?

1:00:25 - Chris J 
Yeah, I would absolutely say, yeah, back to my professional world. Yeah. Absolutely. The communication component. Yeah. Absolutely. Working, you know, I've thought about, not that I'm comparing my co-workers to, you know, A nine-year-old? Sometimes, right. But the same methods of, okay, I have this specific knowledge that I want to get across. What's the most effective way to get that across and think about that? And honestly, when you're teaching something, just remembering that no matter if it's a kid or adult, it's probably going to take multiple times and you're going to have to say it multiple times. Sure, there's the rare, there's the instance where someone gets it right away, but majority of people, they have different, you know, you're not the only person that's talking to them that day, so don't be offended when if you have to repeat something to someone and just remembering that. I think it's been a good reminder for me in the professional world as well. Well, communication is a big part of what you do.

1:01:26 - Andy 
I mean, you work with these different, you know, engineers, contractors. Also, you do a lot of these and learn. I would imagine you do a lot of those, right?

1:01:37 - Chris J 
Yeah, a good amount, and I think there's a method of giving a good lunch and learn compared to giving a bad one. That's been eye-opening, the art of giving a presentation and how much that you can work and improve upon that. It's not just about coming out there and smiling and thinking that, okay, I'm not afraid to talk anymore because it probably Public speaking is a big thing where some people get very anxious about going out and do that public speaking. But moving beyond that, like, okay, I'm comfortable in front of this audience, but how can I most effectively get this topic that we're discussing and get them to remember about it? And what are the points that I want them to remember out? And I think I'm still progressing. You know, the lunch and learn I gave you today. Yeah, still progressing, yeah. Still progressing, so I still think getting, you know, improving on and there's areas that I can improve upon. Talking about AI, we had a, as a company, we had a big virtual summit a couple weeks ago and I had the opportunity to be a co-host for one of those and then one of the trainers on the internal side, after the presentations, they sent out, they're like, hey, we found this AI tool that actually took your presentation and the AI tool has some tips for you as a presenter. I was like, oh, like First, I was like, oh, this is super scary, but I don't know why I'm so scared, because if that particular person just said, I watched your presentation and I have these tips for you, I wouldn't have been so clamped up, but whenever I heard the AI tool tip in my presentation, which after I finally got over the anxiety of looking at the report, I was like, oh, these are great tips. I need to think about these for the future there. There's always opportunities, there's always areas where you can use to get better. It's just acting upon those and recognizing those and taking that criticism and moving forward. Yeah, for sure.

1:03:34 - Andy 
Those are good tips, so if you're getting a lunch and learn or want to do some education, those are some helpful things, and so I want to just get into really an important aspect of the show, which is the title of the show, Enhance the World Around Us, or just enhance podcast. One of the big reasons I created it was to interview people, understand what people are doing to enhance the world around them. So what does that mean to you in terms of what you're doing? Do you feel like that's, it sounds a bit, I say like a Miss America pageant. I say it over and over again, so people that listen a lot might be getting tired of me saying that.

1:04:20 - Chris J 
What does that mean to you, exactly? Well, I kind of tie it, so I had the opportunity a couple weeks ago to talk to the senior engineering class for my alma mater, NC State. It's just a small senior engineering class for civil engineering, structural engineering. And one of the topics that came up was just, what does it mean? Why do you do what you do, essentially? And going back, I've thought about this. I think structural engineers, anybody in the AEC industry, really, I think we're taking for granted a little bit in the basic human service we're providing. And we're providing a place for shelter and housing and a place for people to live and work in. And anytime someone walks into a building, they don't even think about it falling on them. But essentially, that's what we are doing as structural engineers and as architects as good contractors, is providing that safe support, safe environment for them. So at the very basic level, just by going into this industry, I'm providing a very necessary public need, essentially. So that, as hokey as that may sound, I think about that, I was like, okay, I feel good about what I do. Now, from a field engineer standpoint with Simpsons Strongtie, how does that correlate I've thought about this because when you're a design consulting structural engineer you can point at that building that you're involved with and like that is you know example A that this is my contribution you know it's a it's a little bit more blurry being on the manufacturing side but you certainly you can you can point to you know a lot more structure and say like hey a component of that building is it is you know the reason that that is partially because of me. It's accepting that you're kind of a part of a larger company and because the work that you do is an important piece to develop that innovative technology that can make that building go up faster and can house, provide opportunity for people to stay in and be safe from the storm when it rolls around. So that really, kind of, whenever it's a long day, I'm like, what am I doing? Just being able to think back and tie it to that, I guess, kind of motivates me.

1:06:53 - Andy 
Yeah, that makes sense. It's almost like one of your jobs, I mean, you have a lot of jobs, really. One of your jobs is to help engineers do their job. Yeah, exactly. And contractors do their job better, so that, in effect, you actually have more of a Sure, a fingerprint on a little bit more is just a smaller fingerprint.

1:07:16 - Unidentified Speaker 
Maybe a little cloudy.

1:07:17 - Andy 
I think Andy worked on that building, but I don't really remember, or somebody else. I think there's probably some scenarios where it's like, because I got them out of a pinch, or I bet there's some situations like that where you can really point to that and say, that's why I do my job.

1:07:39 - Chris J 
Yeah, absolutely. You get a lot of phone calls with, you know, installs that didn't go according to plan and trying to identify what's the, what's the, you know, best way to correct this and not necessarily, you know, cost someone a lot of hard, you know, not necessarily the answer to be immediately be tear it out and replace it. You know, what can we do? You know, what kind of engineering can we do in-house to say, okay, we've done this testing and this testing correlates to your condition and helping that type of segue of information. So, absolutely seeing that and being able to help on particular projects or help on projects, you know, there's been certain projects that the other option was dimmer repair. We manufacture FRP carbon fiber. Fiber-reinforced polymer, and essentially you utilize this high-performance carbon fiber, you adhere it to concrete or CMU structures, and you're able to gain a lot more significant strength. So you're retrofitting, rehabilitating structures, and being involved with those projects are certainly rewarding because you see this dilapidated building turn into a new structure at that point. So knowing that, hey, because of that FRP that was applied there, we're able to reutilize this structure there. It's certainly pretty rewarding, too. Yeah, which, I mean, I'm somebody who believes if we can reuse that building, recycle it, that's better than tearing it down.

1:09:18 - Unidentified Speaker 
Absolutely.

1:09:19 - Unidentified Speaker 
And so forth.

1:09:20 - Unidentified Speaker 
So that's making the world a better place.

1:09:22 - Unidentified Speaker 
Yeah.

1:09:23 - Unidentified Speaker 
So awesome.

1:09:23 - Unidentified Speaker 
Well, Chris, we kept you for a while.

1:09:26 - Unidentified Speaker 
This is awesome.

1:09:27 - Unidentified Speaker 
You didn't know if you were going to make the hour mark, but I think we did.

1:09:33 - Unidentified Speaker 
But was there anything else you wanted to hit on?

1:09:35 - Unidentified Speaker 
No, I think this has been great, and I really enjoy the process.

1:09:39 - Unidentified Speaker 
Like I said, I shared with you, you introduced the podcast to me, and I started listening to it, and I'm excited to hear the other new episodes coming out, too.

1:09:48 - Unidentified Speaker 
Yeah, very good.

1:09:49 - Unidentified Speaker 
Well, we'll put the deets on how to get a hold of you.

1:09:52 - Unidentified Speaker 
Is there anything you want to mention as far as that goes, as far as how to get a hold of you?

1:09:58 - Unidentified Speaker 
Absolutely.

1:09:59 - Unidentified Speaker 
Just give me a call if anything ever comes up.

1:10:01 - Unidentified Speaker 
comes up or shoot me an email, I'm more than happy to help.

1:10:06 - Unidentified Speaker 
And yeah, anytime anything comes up with Simpson Strongtie, please feel free to reach out to us.

1:10:12 - Unidentified Speaker 
That 1-800 number that you see on our website or even the email address Strongtie.

1:10:18 - Unidentified Speaker 
I can't remember the official customer service email there, but we are always open to issues or any type of questions that come up.

1:10:27 - Unidentified Speaker 
You know, I think a motto that was coined by one of our early engineers was bad news welcomed.

1:10:35 - Unidentified Speaker 
If you have an issue, please reach out to us.

1:10:39 - Unidentified Speaker 
We're excited to help.

1:10:41 - Unidentified Speaker 
Yeah, that's a great attitude to have, and I'm sure people appreciate that.

1:10:47 - Unidentified Speaker 
So, Chris, appreciate you being on today.

1:10:50 - Unidentified Speaker 
Thank you.

1:10:51 - Unidentified Speaker 
Hey everybody, thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhanced, and please leave a like Subscribe or follow and we'll see you next time