So on today's episode we had Jane Frederick, who's an architect, and even though I'm not an architect or engineer, I was able to understand what she was talking about in the whole realm of you can't take a Northern style house and put them in the South. And I really enjoyed her enthusiasm, her passion about what she was talking about. Was there anything you gathered from the episode? Yeah, I I mirror what you say. I mean, I'm not an architect either, I'm a structural engineer. But I was able to pick up on the basic thesis of her book, which is I think you picked up exactly what it is, which is what the the quandary that happened in the post World War 2 era was what they would build similar to up north down in the South. And and that created a lot of problems. So that's really what a big part of what the book is about that she has coming out. So check out her book, Jane and Michael Frederick. It's a architecture in a Southern vernacular style. And I learned what that means. I learned a lot about Jane and Michael and just the practice they have. So the passion they have for architecture, the passion they have for design, residential architecture specifically. And so whether you're the AE or C part of the AEC industry, I think you'll benefit from this. And just to to understand the construction style and just a passion for for design. So my name is Andy Richardson and this is my producer, Madeline. And this is the enhanced podcast where we learn about professionals in the AEC industry and what their what is and what their why is. So come along with us and check out this next episode with Jane Frederick. Let's jump to the intro. Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why. Yeah, Well, welcome to the enhanced podcast. Thank you, Jane. We're live, so I'm glad to have you in in studio today for the podcast. I wanted to start right out with the topic you brought up a minute ago, which is your book that just came out. No, it's coming out in September, but you can pre-order it on Amazon or Barnes and Nobles right now. OK, awesome. Yeah, I didn't realize it hadn't come out yet. So I did see that on LinkedIn. Yeah. So congratulations on the book. Thank you. And I just want to know one thing, what inspired you to to write the? Book So Michael, who's my partner both in life and in business, we've been talking about writing a book for a long time and we're really focused on sustainability. And I can give you the back story in a minute if you want, but we wanted to give resources to homeowners so that they could build a sustainable, resilient home because all the books that we're aware of that are written for sustainability for homeowners or for cold climates. And a hot humid climate detailing is totally different than a cold climate. You know, you know, they're talking about, you want massive insulation walls and that's not what we need in the hot, humid climate. We need you to spend your money on the best windows that you can afford. You know that that's a big difference in in how we go about that. So that definitely the energy side is, is 1 facet, right? But there's other facets in the book as well. Right, right, right. So how the just walking through it. So Michael and I, how we got interested in all of all of really building science is back in 2000, early 2000s, we had a couple of houses beachfront in Hilton Head. They were going to be small projects. One of them we were going to reside the house. The other one was we were doing a small addition and replacing some windows pulled off the exterior skin. It was full of termites, moulded mildew, you know, the people were living in it. And the next day we had people in hazmat suits, you know, gutting the house to, to rebuild it. And these were like 20 year old houses and you're thinking what is wrong? You know, they were built to code, and they shouldn't be full of mold and build you. So we started researching then and ran again, discovered Joe Steibik. I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he's like the father of building science. OK. Yeah. You know, OK. Yeah. And so, you know, one of his sayings was, you know, building codes of the past 100 years were written by cold weather chauvinists. And so he really in the, you know, 2000 to 2005 really flipped the building science for hot, humid climates on its head. You know, that that's when we started doing conditioned crawl spaces, when we started, you know, insulating at the perimeter of the the building envelope and not having a vented attic with hot humid air up there. And so that really started our journey on building science. And at the same time, if you think about how did we get there, I mean, why were houses all of a sudden built in 1980? Horrible, You know, they didn't used to be. So if you look back, it kind of makes a lot of sense. So traditional houses built in the South before air conditioning, we based it on several things. One, they were raised up off the ground that increased circulation. It also got us up out of the floodplain off the damp ground, high ceilings for the heat to rise, porches on the South to block the sun, single width buildings for the cross ventilation. And, you know, the, the combination of all that made it bearable to live in this hot, humid climate. Then after World War 2, when all the soldiers were returning with the GI Bill, there was just lots of houses to be built. So developers started thinking about how can we build this faster? How can we put up houses fast enough for all of these returning GIS? And what they did is they start think about Levittown in, in New Jersey, you know, so they started doing modular pieces. So they had two by four 8 foot studs. They had like homo soap for the exterior sheathing drywall when before we had laugh, laugh, laugh and plaster. And we had the exterior sheathing prior to that would have been, you know, 1 by 6, right, Right. You know, with a full 2 by 4 stud with the Latin plaster. So nothing that mold and mildew would want to eat. You know, it would dry out if it got wet. So they started building with really paper based products and they forgot all about the vernacular lessons that or didn't pay attention to them because they were trying to put it up fast and then they air conditioning it. And so then you're bringing in that intersection between the the attic and the conditioned space that's, you know, you would have condensation and that's when you would have mold potential mold and build you. And then it really got worse in the 70s with the oil embargo because then everybody super insulated their house, but they still had that vented attic and the vented crawl space. So it just got worse. And so that sort of was the the low point of construction I think. OK, the mid 80s. The mid 80s and then as you know, structurally, the the next big thing that really happened to change building codes was after Hurricane Andrew. And that's when they realized that we need to, to do different things in structurally and to keep the roof from coming off, you know, And so that's when we started tying it down from the roof to the, to the foundation. And then after that, subsequently they discovered other things because before if your roof, if you didn't have a roof, you weren't worried about water infiltration around your windows and doors, particularly because if you didn't have a roof, it didn't matter. And so that's when we came, they, they developed all the DP rating and, and how to seal windows and doors like they should be. So it's, it's sort of an interesting journey how it's all. But then in the book, so we talk about a lot of that. So we talk about the vernacular traditions to begin with. Then we talk about siding your house because in to be sustainable, you really need to run your house. The, the long side, the skinny part would be facing east and West so that you don't have the harsh sun coming in your West side particularly, and it's easier to shade on the, the South side and you don't have to worry too much about the north side. So siding it a lot. Then we talk about a lot of building science and you know, how to put them all together. And we talk about it on a high level because we want our, the, the people reading the book to have enough information that they can talk to their architect or their builder intelligently to say, what are we doing about, you know, to make this building tight? You know, what's our blower door test going to be? You know, some, some of the codes require, like in Tennessee requires your blower door test to be 7. And that's just horrible. I mean, you need it down to about one 1 1/2, you know, so it's, you know, talking or something about some of that. Then we talk about the building system. So your HVAC, your water, your electrical, you know, and in our climate, you have to have solar to get it to net zero. So how do you incorporate all that? And then we talk a couple of chapter on resiliency. How do you build for hurricanes, which we rely a lot on our structural engineers for that with the, you know, as you know, designing the sheer, all the moment frames or whatever we need for that, but also your impact glass, your rising, raising it up out of the floodplain. You know, just the different steps that you do for that. And then we talk about aging in place because you want to have your home last for your lifetime and beyond. Yeah, it sounds like a great resource. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, we're super excited about it. And it it to what you were saying about your research, there really isn't much of A an answer to that right now in terms of these specific solutions, in terms of a written book. Right. Yeah, No, there's not that much. I mean, Joe Steibek has his guide for hot, humid climates, but it's really technical. I mean, I think it's a little more than most homeowners would want to dig into. You know, it's I mean some would, but it's ours is more not just the structure and envelope of the building, but just comprehensive more about. Yeah, OK. And I so this is actually, I mean this is geared toward home owners primarily. Yes. And they and giving them the knowledge, the tools to be able to go out and work with their architect, work with their. Maybe they don't have an architect? Right Work just with their builder or you know, because so many homes don't have an architect or they might have had an architect that did a plan book, but there's not an architect that they're working with when it's being constructed. And so it's gives them information to. Yeah, that plan book might be written for the North. Exactly. And and so make sure you read the book and. Right. And it would help you select a plan to think, OK, this is where the orientation of my lot. What kind of what shape of house, what form of house would fit best on this to for sustainability purposes? Like I I was talking to a a friend of mine, Elaine Gallagher. I don't know if you Adams, Elaine Gallagher Adams. Do you know her? She's an architect. She she lives between here and and Maine, but she worked for the Rocky Mountain Institute. She's just, she does sustainability on the macro level. Like she works on sustainable hospitals, which is kind of net zero hospitals, which is has to be super complicated. But she was talking about, she was talking to a developer that had done some, some houses that were super sustainable and net zero and had solar batteries, everything he said, I think I'll just copy these on the other side of the street. And she's like, no, they won't work on the other side of the street because the orientation's different. You know, you have to think about how the roof is oriented so you get that southern exposure. So, you know, a lot of people just don't think that through everything that sometimes might be obvious to us. And it's adapting the I love that because it's the site is so important and it's adapting the design to the site, not just grabbing something and slapping it anywhere. Right, right, Yeah, because IA lot of people might just look at the plan to say this works on how I want to live, not thinking about does it work for this site, this part of the country, this climate. Yeah, now I was, I was reading some previews about the book it was discussing. It's different of the vernacular. Style and. Forms and maybe you could hit on what are a couple of those. Sure, sure. So I think one that most a lot of people are familiar with is the Charleston single house. OK, so the Charleston single house is raised up one story. It's typically one room wide. It has the porch on the South facing side. And but what's different about that is the way the most of the streets where they are owned in Charleston is the nearest that the east and West face the streets. So they have that door going onto the porch. That's the front of the house. But it's still a single wide house raised up with the double story porch. So it meets it, it, it does all those vernacular lessons that we had learned. So that that's one of them. Another one that you see a lot that's really the same as a Charleston single house, but it's called a house. It's the same form, but you enter onto the porch from the the middle of the porch and you see a lot of those around Buford. A particular Buford one is the Buford Tea House. OK. Is that what like the Main Street here? Yeah, there's several of them. So what it is, is the, the, the house is T shaped and at the intersection of the T is where the the vertical circulation is, where the staircase is. And then there's a porch that wraps 3 sides OK, all facing South. So you have, you know, two single width rooms here and a single width room here and then the staircase here. Yeah, so there's a reason for the staircase in the middle. It helps with the flow of air. With the air, yeah, both the air and the vertical circulation. So that's another one. Another one that we we use a lot is a dog trot. A lot of people might be familiar with those. They were also called 2 pens in a passage, but they're 2 single width rooms with an open porch in between them and they're all under one roof and then that open space in the middle because of the Bernanelli effect, the winds come around the edge of the the building and increase in the dog trot space. And this we've done several. We have one out on Bray's Browns Island that we did. And whenever we would go out when it was under construction, the contractors, the construction workers were always in the dog trot. They had set up their saw in there. They would eat lunch in there just because the breeze was that much cooler in there. Wow. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And yeah, I like that Bernoulli effect as an engineer. Yeah, I. Love that terminology. So yeah, the as you narrow the width of an opening, the wind pressure or the speed increases. Exactly. So that's the concept, Yeah. So it forces a breeze to go through there. I didn't realize that was it. I just thought it looked cool. Yeah. And I think that's what I'm learning today is a lot of these things. And I think part of the point of the book, correct me if I'm wrong, but that is that is the point is it's not just for a cool look, like a tea house look. It was it was there for a reason. It was because it was hot down here. There was no air conditioning and we needed a way to cool off. So we created this dog trot to sort of cool. Down exactly. Yeah, so and that's really neat. And even just from a almost historical standpoint, I think there's value in bringing and keeping these aspects. Well, it keeps the sense of place, you know that I think what happened after World War 2, like with Levittown and all that, everything started looking alike. And for our architecture, you know, there's local materials, there's the local vernacular traditions. I mean, to think about how we would build to keep cool. Conversely, if you were in a cold climate, you're doing something totally different. You're building a box with low ceilings to conserve all your heat. And you know, so and it, it was a reason why you would build for whatever climate you had. And then the other thing, if you think about using local materials, so we use a lot of Cypress and that's almost indestructible. I mean, it, it, it's rot. It's last, you know, extremely long time, but it looks right because it belongs here and it's beautiful. It's beautiful, yeah. But the other thing you might think about is if you see a stone fireplace here in Beaufort, you think that is so weird looking and it's because we don't have any stone. I mean, it's obviously from someplace else. So it or if you think about an Italian village that you're up in the bell tower looking out of it and the clay tile roofs are all the same color and they sort of match the hills. It's because the clay tile was matched from the clay from the local area, right? So that's it, blends in. Yeah, if you were to do a project there, you might, you would probably use that those materials. Yes, exactly. OK, so that that sounds really awesome about the book and a real good resource for I think our listeners. I want to, I want to go all the way back to your background a little bit and change gears a bit in terms of, you know, just what sparks you to get into architecture to begin with. My art teacher in high school really encouraged him. My my father was a aerospace engineer and my mother was a interior decorator. And so sort of a combination of the skills that I learned from them or inherited from them. And then my art teacher really suggested that I look at architecture, and I did and enjoyed it. Yeah, and and never look back. Nope. Nope. Well, that's great. It sounds like the art teacher hit the nail on the. Head Yeah, yeah, and have. And she just died this year at age 95. Oh wow. Yeah. Sounds like she lives a. A great and long life. So and you've you've been working with your husband for a period of time? Yes, we have. We have worked. We will celebrate. We just celebrated 36 years in business and we've been married 41. Oh wow. So it's working out so far. And and together. Together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, we graduated in 82. So we worked for like, engineers. You have to work for somebody else for a little while before you can get licensed or to take the exams to get licensed. And so we worked for other people for a while. And we're in the Washington, DC area. Michael had started his own firm with a high school friend. And I was freelancing because our girls were babies. And we came down here on vacation and Michael said I could live here, OK. And three and three months later we lived here. And that was in 1989 when we moved. And you did, did you do any market research or I mean? We, yeah, we did some. So at that time Datta was extremely new. Brays Island was just getting started. I mean, Datta was probably 5 or 6 years old, maybe a little older, but not not real old. Brace Island was just getting started. Jim Thomas was the only architect in town. There had been another architect that had just moved away and we came down and met with several bankers and they said, yeah, I think it would be good. OK. Well, that was a good a good market research. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it wasn't a whole lot of market research, but yeah. And so we moved and hung out our shingle and. Yeah, awesome. And so one thing I've, I usually work with some of your other architects in the office like Benji and Tom, but and one of the things I was thinking about before this was just how you've been in business for a long time, but also you have a team that's. Right. Yeah. So, so Tom has been with us I think maybe 12 or 13 years and Benji will be 10 years this year, so. That's that's an. Incredible. Thing because it's it's hard to keep talent, it's hard to define talent, it's hard to keep. Talent, right? I mean, I can attest, I enjoy working with both of those architects. And what is there a Is there a secret to the teamwork building that you have and keeping talent in place? I don't micromanage and I think that's important too well and we have a very mature staff right now. So it's everybody's very capable and runs their own projects and has a lot of economy, which I think is important to grow and we're working on the process that they'll take over from Michael and I so it's. So there's a vision there. Yeah, I think that's probably part of it too. I got a vision to take over. Right. Because I mean, everybody wants to keep advancing and growing and I think that that's what we try to provide. And what's the secret of running a business with your spouse? I don't know if there's a secret. I mean, we kind of do different things, which I think is important and we, I think over the years what, what, and you probably know this too, but is that you, what's really important is who your clients are, who you work with and your clients are pretty much architects, I would guess more so than just individuals, homeowners. Yeah, I mean, we work with a lot of architects. Yeah. But for us, all of our clients are individuals, homeowners typically are going to be this new homeowner and we figured out who we like to work with and who we don't want to work with. I mean that that's, and I think the, our, our, our big tale is if typically it's a couple and if the couple are not kind to each other when we meet with them, we don't want to work with them. Yeah. And and usually it's, it's like you see these tiny little insights early on. If it's happening at that very first meeting, imagine what it's going to be during construction. Right, when there's a lot more stress there, the other thing that we we really try to do is to relieve any stress that could be there during the the build. I mean that so we, we have everything selected before we start construction so that it's not the contractor calling up and saying I've got to have the tile selected by tomorrow. You know, we've selected it before we start. You know, we've selected everything before we start. So what that does is 1, we don't have any allowances because it's been selected. So we have a real price. You know, things might change if you know, there's a hurricane and plywood prices go up or something like that. But it's, there's no allowances that, you know, sometimes if there's an allowance, it's not realistic, you know, that it's just a, it's a number. It's not based on real things. And then we also do construction administration. So we're going out to the, to the job site to answer questions and make sure everything. And as an engineer, you know how important that is. I mean because you can't draw everything. Right. And I mean, I guess you could, but nobody would want to pay you to draw everything. And so as thing questions come up during construction, I think it's nobody's better suited to answer than the architect or the engineer that had thought about this project for a couple of years and know what the design intent is to answer that question instead of just doing what you think might be right if you're contract. And the other thing that we found is that particularly subcontractors, they want to get on the job site and do their job and to know what that is, you know, just that this is how we want the, the, the siding laid out or this is how we want this to happen instead of them taking a lot of time to figure out what we were thinking. Right. Or they may guess. Oh, they get. If you're not there, they'll guess. Yeah. And I mean, I, I agree, I think that construction is I, I believe construction is an extension of design. Yeah, exactly. To where, like you mentioned, you can't draw every single and even if you did, you get out there and your mind changes your as a designer, as a contractor and as a owner that everybody changes because you get out there and you're like, well, that stud looks really tall or you know, this, this would look really cool if we put a niche here or something, you know. So do you find that that is that is true about the construction phase? We don't do too many design changes in, in, in construction. One of the things that we do and as you've been over to office to see is that, you know, we we build it in a Revit model. And so our clients could put on the, the virtual reality glasses and walk around in it. And that helps a whole lot because a lot of people can't visualize what it looks like. And even if you do pretty much understand putting on those 3D glasses really nails it down. I mean, it's we don't render it to the final colors. It's a grayscale, but it's very realistic. I mean so much so that if somebody is on a staircase that we haven't put a handrail on it yet, they're kind of like. Get a little dizzy? Better not get over to the close to the edge. Yeah. So how long have you been implementing the the VR? I'm going to say maybe 2015, sixteen a while. Yeah. So you've you've pretty much mastered. Yeah, yeah. We started on Revit in 2007, OK. And we start, we started on AutoCAD in 1985, OK. I mean, we were, we're old enough that we didn't learn it in school, but we learned it right after we graduated. And you know, we had those really fast 286 computers, and when we got the 386, wow, we were just so fast. We couldn't stand it. Yeah, you've seen a lot of changes in the industry. Yeah. What? What is the biggest one you've seen so far? Well, one using computers, but I think the change from AutoCAD to Revit was a huge change because Revit being model based, you know, if you change the windows, it changes your window schedule, it changes it on all the draw. You know, it's so it eliminates a lot of coordination issues because if you're drawing by hand and you changed your window, you would think, OK, So what where else is that window showing up? Right? You know, Oh, oh, it's in that section and it's in that elevation. Oh, and it's in those two interior elevations and the window schedule, and if you change it in Revit it, it changes it everywhere. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's it is amazing. Yeah. Was that a difficult transition to go from AutoCAD to Revit? It was a little bit of a learning curve and I'm still not great on families in, in Revit it's, but a lot of it is, you know, it, it's, it's different in that in Revit you're actually building the house, whereas in AutoCAD or drawing it by hand, you're drawing lines representing a wall. Whereas in Revit it's a 2 by 6 wall with, you know, this sheet, you know, zip sheathing and this siding and this thick drywall or wood or you know, whatever. Yeah. And you know that that can be how you represent that family, how you represent that wall can be a challenge in itself, at least I've found. Just like when we're using those backgrounds for structural and then it like that sheathing, for example, is that the edge of the stud or is that the edge of the wall? Right. That whole conversation we've had numerous times, and one of the things we have is different architects. Yeah, and everybody does it their own way, right, everybody? Does it differently. So we have. We have to really adapt. Yeah, so do most architects here use Revit or everybody? Are a lot of people still using AutoCAD? We have, we have such a variety. I would say it's Revit is definitely growing. It's still growing, but maybe half as just a ballpark. But there's all the way from AutoCAD, Datacad, Archie, CAD, we even have Power CAD. I've never heard of that Which. Is a Mac base and hand drawing still wow. And napkins, which we have a few nap because we do work with the homeowners, right? Yeah, they come in and they might have a small job and so they'll bring us a napkin sketch. Right. Those we might send some of those to you because it's people that have a plan book house and they need the structural design to get a building permit. Yeah. And I mean, we're happy to do it if as long as they pay the fee. Right, so. Yeah. So we've definitely seen a lot of evolution in technology the the VR that's pretty impressive that you're using that. Is there anything else that you see coming up that like a trend that you? See. Well, it, it, it, there's a lot of talk about what AI will do for us. We've played around with it some in the office, Benji's been using it some for enhancing renderings like adding this or that to a rendering, which is pretty cool. We had fun one day just playing with it with doing field reports in different tones of voices, but we're not using it really for any design work yet. It's. Not quite there. Yet I don't think it's there yet, or if it is, we haven't figured it out. Right, right. Are you using any AI? I mean just you know, research maybe and things like that maybe to help with some writing, but not for we have we have toyed with one for field reports. It's actually a software to gear toward that Inspect mind is the name of it. We haven't adapted, adopted it fully yet. So we're not like a huge AI office either. I do like this one actually. So this is we, we record these and read AI. So a lot of your note takers for like Zoom meetings, right? We're using that, which I consider AI because you can go back and review the summary. And a lot of we we do a structural charrette. Yes. Before our like the deal and I'll, I like to record those with permission of course. And that'll create like a, a summary which we can use to help us. Because what will happen is, you know, you may say, hey, we want to use Cyprus for the roof beams or something. Well, I that'll come out in the bullet points. And you know, so those are some of the things we use for AI. But yeah, I definitely think for design work. I agree it's not quite there yet. And just my small amount of research. So I want to go into a little bit of, I mean we talked about what's going well for for you guys like your team. Is there any challenges you've seen as running a business or with with? Probably. Well, when we're talking about before we started recording, being in a small town, sometimes it's really hard to get employees to move here. You know that that's and even if it's not hard to get somebody here, you have to really make sure you're ready for that commitment to an employee. Because I don't want to hire somebody and then six months later say, sorry, we don't have the work. You know that you really want to make sure that you have the work to commit to an employee to bring them here. I mean, because that and because you pretty much have to bring somebody here. There's not just a lot of loose architects wandering around. Right, unless you want to just grab them from somebody. Else right, right. So that that's one, that's one of the bigger challenges. And then, you know, just the ups and downs of the economy. It's always, you have to be prepared for it. I mean, we've been through a number of recessions, fortunately none as bad as the 2008 to 2012 recession. That one was pretty horrible. Right. Especially I mean and you, you guys have really focused on residential. Right, Yeah, Yeah. So when we when we first started, we would do almost anything that walked into the door. And then around 2001 or so we decided that we really wanted to focus on residential. We had been doing a lot of residential prior to that. But I think there's something about being in a small town when there's a big public building or commercial project. The thought is, oh we have to get an out of town expert. Right. No, I've seen that. Yeah. So it, so it was, it was frustrating and challenging and we thought, you know, in Buford the really fun projects are the residential ones. So we we we've focused on residential and what we do is try to really expand our range. So like right now we have projects in Georgia and Florida here. We do a lot of work in Hilton Head. So it's, you know, just spreading where we do work to make sure that we have enough going on. Yeah, OK. But right now, you know, your your office is very in real. In real life, it's. Oh yeah, everybody's in real life. Yeah. Now it was funny because during the early days of the pandemic, everybody went home for about 6 weeks and then they said we don't like being at home, we want to come back. So. And I mean, you know, that was what we were discussing it definitely we're, we're AI say post COVID remote company, but it's, it definitely raises pros and cons, you know, because you, you want to just say this is what I'm talking about and we can jump on a Google meet or what have you. Or, you know, we do have people that are hybrid enough to where we can get in together. But, but, so that's the, that's the disadvantage, but there are advantages. I, I find it to be less distracting actually to be, you know, in, in this environment and it's just easier for me to work a lot of days, but. I can see that because we're all in one room and if a contractor walks in and they always come straight back into the drafting room, it it it disrupts everybody while they're there. Yeah. So yeah, I can see being by yourself that you could focus a lot better. And I know that remote work, especially for people that have a commute is really nice, you know that. But we don't have to worry about that too much here. So that's. Yeah, you have a very short. I have a very short. So you you mind sharing about about? That OK yeah. So our house and our office is on the same piece of property and we moved in there in 92 and the office was a contractor's office so we were grandfathered into the neighborhood and we've renovated that twice. But the studio part was a, a garage and so we raised the roof 4 feet. So it's a nice bright airy space. And then the other part, you know, is conference room and storage and our VR room. And then the our house is right behind it and it's was Quonset Hut or it still is a Quonset Hut that was put up after World War 2. And we've gutted that and added different buildings to it. So. But so our commute is about not even 100 yards, yeah. And it's a beautiful place, by the way. So thanks you, you had us over recent. Well, of course we come over from time to time for project work, but also you had a nice oyster. Roast right a few. Times. Is there another one of those coming? Up Yes, we're going to have a big oyster roast this fall for the book launch. Oh awesome. Yeah, well, hope to get some good oysters. Yeah, we will. Yeah. So one of the things I really like to just find out about I, I think we've gotten a sense of it throughout the, the time is just really what the driving force of your, of what you do is, you know, because you've been doing it for a long time, you've stayed focused on it and something has to keep you on that. Well, what really is a lot of people don't think about or don't know that buildings can typically add about 40% of the carbon to the atmosphere. And that's both in operations and what we call embodied carbon, which is in the steel, in the concrete, in the materials in the building. And so really focusing on how we can reduce carbon because we need to, we have to. And like right now, we're starting to do a lot at one point depending on the site over the years, we've done a lot of wood piling foundations because of tree roots. But now we're starting to think, well, we need to do that because we won't need steel and concrete as much because the the, the biggest carbon hogs in your building is steel and concrete and aluminum. And if you can reduce those, which is really a challenge for a structural engineer, but you know, there's a lot of green concrete if you use more fly ash and, you know, make the mix the right thing. And then the other thing that I discovered when I was writing the book is that US steel is a lot cleaner than steel made in China because the US steel, how it's made is just a cleaner process of making it. So that helps reduce the carbon footprint right away. So that's one of the things that we're real, you know, just to make that sustainable. So sustainable is, you know, is really kind of big because you have to think about healthy materials too. You know, people might say, you know, luxury vinyl tile is great stuff. It's indestructible, it's inexpensive, and you can get some that looks really good, but it's full of carcinogens. And so you have your baby crawling around, you know, licking the, the floor or it's made in Cancer Alley in Louisiana. So that when they manufacture it, all the people living around it are just, they're, they call it Cancer Alley for a reason, you know, because of the fumes and the particles that are emitted from the processing of petroleum products, you know, and that's what vinyl's made out of his petroleum. So thinking about what materials that you put in, I mean, and a friend of mine that's architect Corey Squire says that it's sort of like the Michael Pollan book that he talks about. You should eat local, you know, fresh foods and not very much of it. So he says with, with, with building materials, you should use local materials, real materials, you know, wood and stone and you know what, what you know, it is, it's not like all this list of ingredients that are in it and that's close by. So you don't have all that transportation costs to bring it. So, you know, that adds more, you know, in the when you're thinking about the sustainability part of it, to use a local material, you don't have to bring it from across the country or from China. So you're saving all that transportation costs. So it's a lot of things to think about, which is pretty fascinating. Yeah. I mean, I think sustainability the the definition has somewhat changed as well over the past 20 years. Yeah. I mean, now you've mentioned the resilience component, which I can definitely resonate with as a structural engineer because. And you know, you mentioned what that is, which is, you know, making sure not only is it sustainable in the sense of good for the environment, but also it sustains. It is. It's resilient. Right. And to think about too that it's resilient. So a lot of our clients when they come to us, they might say, you know, we want a a generator, we'll say, well, have you thought about doing solar panels and a battery backup raw wall? And you get great tax credits for that. But then to make it even more resilient, so after a weather event, if your building has stood up well and you have operable windows and you have solar panels with a battery backup wall, you can live there. I mean, so it's resilient that you can stay in your house until you get power back up. You know you don't have to tear that demo that house and rebuild it. Or exactly and throw all that in the wet landfill. You know that's. Which that to me is just a just a waste. Yes. To do that. So yeah, well, it sounds like you have a real passion for that. Oh, I do. Aspect of things and you really bring that into to all of your projects. Is there anything, is there anything else you wanted to to get into today, Jane? I think we've covered most everything unless you have any other questions. For me, I guess one just fun question. I mean what is it that you like to do to to help with? I mean, we hear about work life balance. What what do you do to help balance out the stress? OK, so so the one thing that I can do that I totally just clears my mind is I like to work jigsaw puzzles. Oh, really? OK. Yeah, because, you know, you're just looking for that other piece and you're just focusing on the colors and the shapes and it just really clears my mind. And I love to cook too, but that's not quite as mind clearing as a jigsaw puzzle. Yeah, because there's a there's a deadline to that, too. Right. Yeah, just like the. Projects any? Any interesting jigsaw? Jigsaw. Puzzles. Well, I have a friend here in town that has, she's turned me on to Liberty puzzles, and they're woodcut, OK, and they're all kind of interesting shapes. So I've been working my way through her collection of those, which has been fun. So even your toys are are sustainable. Right. Yes. OK, well, awesome. Well, and Jane, how do we you said we can get that book. Can you remind us again how to? Get that? Yeah. So it's available for pre-order right now on Barnes and Noble and Amazon, and it will be back be out September 28th. OK, and what if I what if I need an architect? How do I reach out to you? So our firm is Frederick and Frederick Architects and our website you can Google Frederick and Frederick and Beaufort. And I'm, I hope we come up pretty quickly, but it's F-F architects.com. OK, awesome. Well, it was a joy to have. You today. Oh, it's great fun. Thanks, Andy. We'll have this uploaded here soon. OK, All right, good. Hey everybody, thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhance and please be a like a subscribe or follow and we'll see you next time.