0:00 - Madeline
So on today's show, we had Arnie McClure, who is an architect who has a tendency to be more on the variety side. How would you describe that?

0:09 - Andy
Yeah, I mean, you can be a specialist in one niche, one thing. We say niche versus niche, but it was from the South. But you can be a specialist in like one niche or you can be a variety, like you can do a variety of work. I tend to be that same way where we do a variety of work. One day maybe a gas station, another day a house, or another day a medical office building, or like a retail building. So each one has its nuances, and we learn about some of those nuances with Arnie. So that was one of the interesting aspects of it, should you be a generalist or a specialist, which he's lived his career as more of a generalist, and he's been successful with that.

0:57 - Madeline
Okay, sounds like a good episode.

0:59 - Andy
Was there anything else that you thought highlighted in that one? Well, one thing about it was Arnie and I, we don't do a ton of work currently together, but we do have a connection that is going to be highlighted toward the end of the episode, so you have to listen to the whole thing. And also, the way that we're connected, it's not through work, but the way that we're connected, we tie that into architecture. Texture and design. So I thought that was an interesting connection and I wanted to share about that, but I wanted to maybe give it a morsel and they can find out more about that in the episode. All right, well, let's jump to the intro. Hey everybody, my name is Andy Richardson. I'm a structural engineer. I've been doing this 27 years. This is my producer, Madeline, and she has been helping us out. We hit our first year. This is the Enhanced Podcast. Thank you for joining today. Where we interview architects, engineers, and contractors and find out their story. Let's jump to the episode.

2:02 - Madeline
Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why.

2:12 - Andy
Well, welcome to the Enhance podcast, Arnie, and thanks for coming in today. So you said you listened to a few episodes, You know, I like to open this up with something like a curveball, which... I did notice that. So hopefully you're ready. But the curveball for you today is, if you could design an iconic building in the Lowcountry, be it Charleston or Beaufort, South Carolina, what would it be?

2:46 - Arnie
So like an iconic structure, iconic building. That is a curveball. Building I so I think in in Beaufort you know there's such a unique history here and I've learned more I grew up around here but I've learned more about particularly the Civil War and Reconstruction era history and you know we now have a national park here this Reconstruction era but and we have Penn Center, which is a wonderful kind of collection of history and got a lot of really unique history about the Reconstruction Era. I think it'd be kind of fun to, you know, if Peaford ever could engage enough and have enough funding to do a Reconstruction Era museum that really focused on Robert Smalls and, you know, some of the things that happened that I didn't learn in school growing up because it was not a part of the history books. Then it was kind of an unwritten history, so that could be a kind of cool project. I don't know where we'd put it, you know. Harriet Tubman. Harriet Tubman included in that and the history there, you know. I think that would be really fascinating. I have yet to get to visit the International African-American Museum, and I think they have some of that history built into that. It's on my bucket list to get to. That's here? In Charleston. That's in Charleston, okay. New museum just opened this past year. And so I'm definitely gonna try to do that. Kind of interesting, very contemporary architecture there on the waterfront, you know, right where the slaves were brought in. So it's kind of a cool little bit of a holly ground there. Of course, we have a few monuments. So we got the Harriet Tubman monument that's just been placed here in Beaufort. So that could be kind of cool. Yeah, that's a great idea. I don't know. I'll probably think of something better later. We'll come back to it.

4:46 - Andy
Well, we, you know, again, that's why they call it curveball, I guess, but opens up.

4:52 - Arnie
And I would say the reason I did that is because I really enjoy working in the public realm. Our office that I'm with is focused for 23 years, I think, on primarily public sector and commercial work. We don't do a lot of residential, but to me, the public sector and the, you know, you talk about it. Iconic buildings, city halls, police stations, community centers. Those are things to me that sort of make a community, and so being able to do things that enhance your community is kind of a big part of what we do, or hopefully what we do.

5:28 - Andy
Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's what is so interesting about being an architect, I think, right? I mean, you get to have a big impact on that, and those various types of building. What is one of the more common types of buildings. I mean, that's one of the things about your company, Coast Architects, right? I mean, and what you do, but you have a diversity of what you work on, right?

5:54 - Arnie
So, multiple times people have asked me over our career at Coast, since we started Coast, you know, oh, what do you specialize in? And my standard answer is anything we can get. But I do think for us is what our real strength is. We do some medical work, we do retail, we've done things as small as ATM enclosures to 200,000 square foot warehouse buildings, so big to small. Community centers, senior centers, college and university work, gas stations, car washes, And they all have their different unique challenges. And I think because we don't specialize in just church work or just office buildings, that brings a little more curiosity to it. Like somebody that does the same thing over and over, at some point they sort of get a formula. And I think that sort of the thing about us is we approach each project uniquely. Every project is unique, every owner's needs unique. I think that actually, it gives us a better vantage point in some ways. Now, sometimes there's a learning curve, you know, when you're working with something you never worked with before, you know, I mean, chiropractor versus a veterinarian, you know, you've got to know what they do, what kind of equipment they deal with and all.

7:24 - Andy
So, sometimes there's a learning curve, but usually we can figure it out and get a good answer, Yeah, I mean, I haven't heard that advantage, like, okay, you can bring, it's almost like you can almost bring some of the lessons learned from, for example, the medical and bring it into a gas station. Right, right.

7:42 - Andy
Essentially, yeah.

7:43 - Arnie
It's because you've got that kind of, you're like, oh, you know, when we were doing this clinic, we did this, this, and this. Well, we could do that here too, you know, or something. So, sometimes that happens and, you know, I just enjoy the variety. I don't feel like I get stuck with you know, doing the same thing over and over again.

8:03 - Andy
Do you find that for your team, that that is what they want, is variety? Or do you feel like, you know, they would just rather work on, hey, I'm the gas station guy?

8:14 - Arnie
I think definitely the people that are with me now, they may dispute this, but I think they would say, you know, that they've bought into that philosophy too. And like I said, we pursue a lot of different types of jobs. And I think everybody's pretty much on board with that, and you know, kind of like the challenge when you've gotten something maybe you're not as used to doing and you get a little bit out of your comfort zone. I think it enlivens your job, and my other philosophy has always been do what you love, and I love about 90-something percent of what I do. There's always that little bit. I'm sure you feel that way, too. Yeah, what's the part that you enjoy the most about your daily For me, design is absolutely, you know, the thing that drives me, you know, problem-solving. I listened a little bit of your podcast with Joel Newman, and Joel and I have a history because he was my grad assistant when I was at Clemson and a freshman, you know, so it's kind of fun to hear him. I don't see him that often around town here. He's another architect here in town. And so, yeah, I would say problem-solving, you know, meeting with clients. Architecture is a big people business, you know. It's really developing relationships, understanding your clients' needs, and then trying to find solutions for them. So that's my, that's, you know, coming up with the big idea, you know, the creativity part for me. I'm definitely a creative, if you have to put me in a category. I'm definitely in the creative side.

9:53 - Andy
I mean, you want your architect to be creative, right?

9:56 - Arnie
Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's how you solve problems, you know, and there are definitely different kinds of architects, you know. We often talk, when I first meet with a client, I sort of categorize architects into two different types. There's the prima donna architect who says, this is my building and we're gonna do this my way, and there are clients that want that. They want want somebody to tell them and they want it to look like, you know, architect XYZ's building. They like that, you know, every building has a specific look and you're gonna follow and then there are architects that are like, this is your building and we're here to help you solve your problems and give you your building and that's kind of where we thrive. That's where we work is, you know, trying to understand each, again, each project unique, has a unique set of needs, unique budget, usually never enough money in the budget, but that's part of the job. You got to figure out how to solve the problem and meet the budget too.

10:58 - Andy
That's a piece of it. Well, and also you're dealing with this diversity of your portfolio where the budget, all these different factors that you're talking about are different. I mean, and I say that because I come at it from a similar angle. A lot of the architects we work with have a diversity. And so therefore we have to have that same diversity, but what I found is the preferences are different when you go across these different types of work, and the clientele is different. Plus, within that vertical, it's a very different type.

11:29 - Arnie
Well, even with you as structural, you know, I think you mentioned you've done some hotel work, and we don't do a lot of that. We work with more boutique-type hotels than ones that we've dealt with, if you're out there doing you know sort of the standard hotel you know there's a there's a structural system that's been sort of perfected with that you know you've got a nine foot floor to floor height with a six inch slab and low bearing wall you know this sort of so sometimes you do have things where the formula you don't need to reinvent it it's it's you know kind of common sense and we even see that you know we're doing a couple of fire stations and in some ways the structure is very similar on those you know it's a big really big it's a house with a really big garage that's what I tell people a lot of times. Right. So you'll see you'll see some things that you you know certain details and certain things that you do in one building if it works you're going to use it again somewhere maybe in a different gets regurgitated and put out a little slightly different way but so yeah that's Now, back to your daily routine or the thing you said, 90%.

12:44 - Andy
Is there some things that you don't love as much about your job?

12:49 - Arnie
Because that's funny. One of the others I listen to is Esther, my wife Esther, who deals some on the business side and getting paid is always a pain in the butt to have to chase money. Luckily, we have really great clients and I don't have to very often, but sometimes it's like, okay, you know, we can't keep working. I gotta pay my people. So I'd say, you know, that side of it for me. And then probably spec writing, you know, that kind of, it's almost tedious, less creative side of the technical things. Sometimes I dread checking drawings, you know, doing quality control, but then I realized that it's best for me to do it because I know what I'm looking for you know versus you know I've been in some firms where they hire larger firms will have a quality control person who reviews all the drawings but if they weren't the designer they don't really know what you were trying to get out of it so I feel like that's really the the QC part is so important for for getting what you really want when you get down to it and for not having problems during construction or at least less problems during constructions.

14:05 - Andy
Yeah, do you want to do it now or do you wait until later and then have the issues pop up on you?

14:12 - Arnie
So, yeah. Yeah, so I would say those kind of tedious kind of tasks, you know, forms, paperwork, those kinds of things are a real drag, but they're a very small part of the process of everything we do.

14:26 - Andy
Yeah, but some of that you can delegate out.

14:29 - Arnie
Yeah, well I'm lucky my partner loves to do the book and the business side of it, so I get to do the creative side, and she does it too. She's also very into interiors, so her creativity goes more towards the interior side on some stuff, and so we make a good kind of fit because she likes doing certain things, and I like doing others, so that's been a good 23-year relationship there.

14:56 - Andy
Now, let's talk about that a little bit as far as your partnership with Connie. Connie, and how do you say her last name by the way? Saphiris. Saphiris, okay. So as far as, you know, that relationship and how was that, how did you start the company?

15:13 - Arnie
I guess a little bit of background. Well it's funny, so Connie and I, so I started in the profession in 1988, came straight out of Clemson, went to undergraduate and graduate school at Clemson, and went to work for Jeffrey Rosenblum in Charleston Really wanted to be in Buford even then, but there just weren't that many jobs in Buford back then and loved being in Charleston. It was a great, you know, raised a family there and great experience. But I, Connie, I think started, she can correct me on this, but I think within a month or two before I started there, she had just started working for Jeffrey as well. So we interned at the same time in a small firm and got to know each other. And I guess about three years there, I thought I knew everything and was ready to go out on my own, so I left and, you know, tried to do it on my own, did that for a couple of years, and right after that, she left and went to Thomas Dinsinger, the Charleston office. Well, they had two there, right? Well, they ultimately had two offices even there, but so she was working with Herman, there and did that for five or six years at least. And then I had, by that time, gone to become a partner in another firm. Was the firm. And just one day I said, hey, we're looking for somebody. And she's like, oh, I'd love to jump on it. So she actually came in and was a partner. She and I were partners in a larger firm, about a 30-person firm. Seven or so years after that, we just one day said, you know, this is great, but we want to do something a little less stressful. We want to have a little better time, and we left that firm and started Coast. So 2003, we started Coast.

17:08 - Andy
Now, do you find it to be less stressful?

17:12 - Arnie
Well, like in 2008, 2009, it was very stressful, but yeah, generally I think, you know, because we kept it small. That was one of our goals. We didn't want to grow to 30 or 40 people. We had done that in the other firm and we decided that just wasn't us. We wanted to stay. Her in particular, she had gotten to where she was doing HR all the time, you know, and wasn't doing design work and wasn't involved in projects. And we both said, you know, we always want to be project architects. We always want to be hands-on with the projects. Now, we have other people that work with us, but, you know, we don't want to just be management. And it's real easy for that to happen when you start growing your firm. And so that's been a conscious choice on our part to stay small, which is easier than it sounds. But we've been blessed with good solid work and have been busier than ever these last few years. We've been high and low. We started in 2003, 2008 we were so busy we couldn't see what was coming at us until, you know, the work literally fell off the cliff. It was, you know, it was a tough time. Phone calls, it felt like every day somebody was calling and canceling a project. And a tough, tough time to get through that and many years to recover from that. So, anytime we get really, really busy, I feel like, is this deja vu? You know, is this, you know, about, is there another cliff ahead of us? You got to work while the work's there and hope it keeps up.

18:48 - Andy
What do you tell, you know, A, and probably most importantly for you, your team, in terms of how to go through one of those scenarios, and B, for the audience, of course, how to go through one of those scenarios where the economy...

19:04 - Arnie
Well, hold on. You know, be prepared. I think you have to be cognizant. You know, we have always to keep our overhead low so that we if we have to be lean we can be lean you know we even to the point that as partners we you know try to keep our salary within reason that we know that's a fixed salary if we can take you know an owner's draw to make up that difference later we'll do that so that we've kind of lived lean we've kept our we ended up Connie and I own the building that we're in in and, you know, have tried to keep our overhead costs there low. And so, you're prepared there. We try not to, there are certain firms that at least they used to have a reputation of being hire and fire. You know, if you're busy, just hire, hire, hire. And, you know, if things fall off, you can just let them go. And we just have tried not to be that way. You know, we can very cautiously And, you know, a lot of it's your gut, you know. What's going to happen next? It's hard to see the future. Right. I mean, those are some good tips as far as just how to weather the storm.

20:22 - Andy
Yeah.

20:22 - Arnie
I mean, for us, the experience we went through, we had eight employees at the time, which is the biggest we had ever gotten. And they were, you know, it sounds corny to say, but they were like family. And we saw the train wreck come in and we're like, we're going to have to do something. And as hard as it was, we let three people go. And they were great people. We're still good friends with them. And, you know, they luckily found, because we let them go relatively early, they were actually able to find other jobs before everything fell apart. And so they were able to, which I'm grateful they were find jobs and make it through. Talking to other people, a lot of people said, well, this is going to be a six month recession. We're going to hold on to our people. And they burned through their cash reserves, and the recession wasn't over in six months. And then they had to let people go. And then those people were out when there were no jobs left. So in some ways, as hard as it was, doing it earlier was better for the people we had to lose and better for us financially. Because we were able to conserve some funds to keep the firm open. We all had to take some pay cuts. We worked a few less hours. I go back to when I was really young, getting a profession, I had an uncle in Savannah that was an architect. And he told me, he goes, you have to make hay while you can. It's either bust or boom. You're going to be working like you just don't know what to do, or it turns right around and can drop out from under you. Luckily, we haven't had too many of the busts, but that was one that I think all of us who were around in the business at that time will never forget.

22:19 - Andy
Well, you got through 2008, 2009, and then things seemed to come around with the economy. What was the, and you stayed with your partner.

22:28 - Arnie
Yeah, yeah we survived.

22:30 - Andy
What was the secret to keeping a strong partnership at Coast?

22:34 - Arnie
I think the great thing, I don't know if Connie's gonna listen to this, I have to be careful what I say, but the great thing is that I didn't tell her I was doing this, that we both keep communication open and I've seen partnerships where the just don't talk you know and I think if something's bugging one of us we know we can go to the other one and we have a level of trust with each other that you know we're we're not out to hurt each other we're out to help each other and we just had enough time together to know our strengths and and so that's that's been a good thing I think yeah so that's that's really just just talking, you know.

23:23 - Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, which you have no problem doing, right?

23:26 - Arnie
Apparently not. I've probably talked way too much already.

23:29 - Andy
No, no, I appreciate it. No, it's great. Now, I want to mention, or I want to go into the uncle that you brought up in Savannah.

23:39 - Arnie
Is that what brought you into architecture? I figured you would get to that. My answer to how I got into architecture was when I was a kid, I was obsessed with just really corny sounding, but I was obsessed with building tree houses, you know, at like 10, 11, 12 years old, I started, you know, finding scrap wood and nailing it to poor trees, hauling my mom's backyard. So I think I kind of jokingly say, and so what I would happen was I would build this tree house, you know, and I would get it done. And then I would go sit in it and I would get bored and go, okay, I got to add on to treehouse you know it's like this obsession with the constantly and it was the creativity piece I didn't know that's what it was but it was just that need to create and to keep doing it you know I was never satisfied and so I had a little bit of that and then then my dad it was actually my dad's first cousin and they had grown up together in small town and he ended up being in a partnership Actually, in Hilton Head, he was one of the first architects on Hilton Head, and they ended up having, he and his partner ended up opening the Savannah office, and then they had a split, and he ended up taking the Savannah side of the business. Okay, who was the architect again? Tommy Smith. Okay. I mean, I'm sorry, Tommy Stanley. Tommy Smith was my old partner at SGM. Tommy Stanley in Savannah, and So when I, you know, got a little bit older, he encouraged my dad to encourage me a little bit. And so, you know, one year I got a drafting table for Christmas and I thought that was with a parallel bar. And, you know, I thought that was the coolest thing in the world. And then I think the next year I had seen a copy of architectural graphic standards and nobody probably knows what that is now, but that was like the Bible. Of architectural details. I don't know if you have that book or not. I think I got one up there. Yeah, there it is. The red one. Yeah, you got it. I got that for Christmas, and man, I poured over that book as a teenager looking at it all. So that was just kind of it. Somebody said, when did you decide you want to be an architect? And I was like, well, I don't know. I just think I always knew I wanted to be one. So I was lucky in that.

26:09 - Andy
So you went straight in.

26:11 - Andy
So, my dad went to Clemson.

26:13 - Arnie
So, you know, Clemson's the only architecture school in the state. I didn't think about going, you know, nowadays my kids all apply to like 10 colleges and all this stuff. I mean, I applied to one college and, you know, luckily got in and was a great undergraduate experience there. And of course, at that time, Clemson was transitioning the four to four years of undergraduate and two years of graduate. Most schools kind of operating that model and so it came time to go to graduate school and I'm like well I don't want to you know yeah sort of been exposed to the world there are other schools I want to go somewhere exotic and so applied a couple other places but essentially Clemson was such a deal they offered me financially such a deal and they had a program in Genoa Italy which is an excellent program that nobody else had anything compared to it at the time and so I didn't really a choice. I had to stay at Clemson and at the time I thought this is terrible because I'm getting two degrees from the same place and after the first job, that's my other word, advice for anybody out there that's, you know, thinking about going to school. A good school is important but after that first job it doesn't really matter where your diploma is from So, you know, don't let that scare you off. And so, you know, the graduate school is a great experience at Clemson too. Well, with architecture, you have to get the master's if you want to get the registered architecture in the U.S. You pretty much have to. I think there's still a few five-year programs around, but I think now it's, you know, a total of eight years between your internships and schools, so you got to do it one way or the other. I think you can, I think some states still accept the five to three. I haven't seen if that's been completely phased out or not, but most, as far as I know, most schools now are doing the four to Yeah.

28:03 - Andy
So yeah, it sounds like you really had your course planned out from day one. Yeah, yeah.

28:10 - Arnie
Luckily it's worked out. I've survived and made a living. Maybe not gotten rich, but I made a good living.

28:20 - Andy
And then your background, you're from small town South Carolina. What town is that? Varnville.

28:26 - Andy
Big town of Varnville.

28:28 - Arnie
Varnville in Hampton County. I tell everybody it is in the middle of nowhere, but the center of everything, because if you were to draw a box between Savannah, Augusta, Columbia, and Charleston, draw a box, make an X, it's right there. We're sort of in the middle of nothing, but in the center of everything or something like that. Yeah, so it's a good place to grow up.

28:52 - Andy
Small town was a great place to grow up.

28:54 - Arnie
You know, less than 2,000 people in in the town, you kind of knew everybody. They all knew you. There's good things about that and bad things about that. Yeah. So, you know, I still have my, my dad was there till the day he died and he loved that little town. And so I still have a soft spot there for them. So, and we, we still have some family in the area and go back periodically. It's 45 minutes from Beaufort. Now I'm living in Beaufort, was living in Charleston until three and a half years ago. So, yeah. So, We're in the neighborhood. You work in both towns?

29:29 - Andy
I do.

29:30 - Arnie
I work a couple of days in the office in Charleston. The pandemic, for better or worse, taught us some new ways to work. I realized that I don't have to be in the office. Luckily, my partner and my employees have been generous enough to let me be out of the office a couple of days a week. I do some work from home. And we have work in the Beaverton area and we have work in the Charleston area. We primarily work along the coast, although we've gone as far as Spartanburg and Greenville and Anderson for a few projects here and there. But one of the reasons we named our firm Coast was, you know, we wanted to concentrate in this area and I didn't want to spend my days driving all over everywhere to get to jobs. So that's worked out pretty well.

30:23 - Andy
Yeah. Well, what kind of interesting jobs do you have going on right now?

30:28 - Arnie
Well, for people in the Beaufort area, we're working on a University of South Carolina, Beaufort has a campus here in town. There's a building that was built in the 1960s and then added on to in 76 and added on again, and I think it was 92, I think. So we're doing a complete gut and redo of this, it's called Sandstone Building. It's a academic building with the media resources, media resource center and student commons areas and some labs and all that. So that's a really interesting project and challenging budget issues and existing building code issues. You know, one of the things we, got into it and if you re-roof a building now, if you do more than 50% re-roofing, you have to upgrade your roof diaphragm. Well, this building has tectum decking. I don't know if you're familiar with that old, you know, 1960s fiber cement decking that will not provide any kind of diaphragm. So, we're basically having to gut the roof structure down to the bar joist and put new new you know metal decking and reinforced walls that we weren't going to have to do but it's all triggered by codes another fun thing we get to deal with right building codes that probably is it can be in that 90 but sometimes it's in that 10 of things you don't like to deal with is the building code because it can really send you down a rabbit hole sometime but yeah so that's one we're doing a A pretty exciting project in South Carolina State University, a new student center building there that we've done some renovations on the existing one and we're going to be doing an addition onto that building now as a second project there. Just met with a client for a new senior center in St. George, going to be a nice size project. Enjoyed meeting the clients, I'm hoping we're going to have a good project come out of that so a lot of a lot of different nice projects that'll hopefully last a while you know we can get through and then we do a lot of little stuff too you know so tinted outfits or um you know like I said we've done car washes and gas stations I just did a dairy queen in charleston I never thought I would do a dairy queen but it it required design review we do a lot of stuff that requires city design reviews drvs uh and they had to, you know, their prototype wasn't going to fly, so we had to help them develop a, you know, an envelope on the building that looked like Charleston, looked like it belonged, and everybody was so excited about getting a Dairy Queen, and Charleston, we didn't have any Dairy Queens, which is kind of weird for a city that size, and so they were all calling us going, when is it going to open? When is it going to open? Well, it's open now, so you can go get your Blizzard now.

33:33 - Andy
Okay, nice.

33:33 - Andy
Yeah, we'll have to check it out. Yeah, Beaufort is a smaller town, and we had a dairy queen.

33:38 - Arnie
You got a dairy queen. Charleston has none. They're going to be building some more, I think.

33:42 - Andy
So, yeah, glad you got Charleston a dairy queen.

33:45 - Arnie
Yeah, yeah, that's my claim to fame.

33:47 - Andy
Is that your feather in your cap?

33:49 - Arnie
I didn't even get a free frosty or a blizzard out of it. I said the wrong thing, now I'm really going to be in trouble.

33:55 - Andy
Would you say that's, is there a feather in your cap that you really like to point to, and you say, you know, that was one that I really enjoyed over the years?

34:04 - Arnie
I think one of the top projects for us was fairly early in our firm's career. We were awarded the North Charleston Fire Prevention Museum. If you're familiar with Tanger Outlets in North Charleston, it's right next to Tanger Outlets. But it was a very interesting project because at the time, American La France, who had a long history from the 1800s in, I think, Elmira, in New York, upstate New York, moved their manufacturing plant to North Charleston. They produced fire engines, fire trucks, fire apparatus. They're now out of business, but at that time, and they had a collection of 16 or 18 antique fire engines going all the way back to a 16-man hand pumper. They had steam engines, all in operating order, beautiful pieces of equipment. And part of the deal of getting them to move their facility to North Charleston, the city said they would build them a museum to house those apparatus. But they also, the city wanted to build something that was more than just a museum, but that taught fire prevention. And so it's a really cool, we work with a really great group out of Dallas that did all of the interactive museum displays, all of about fire prevention. There's actually, you know, a setup where there's a house fire that starts on the stove and the smoke comes up and all kinds of things happen and fire alarms go off. But the idea is, you know, a lot of schools take their kids there for field trips on fire protection and fire prevention. So it turned out to be a really great project and I still get excited just thinking about it. So that was sort fun thing to do.

35:58 - Andy
Yeah, it sounds like a real helpful way to just get the kids interested in something that's super important, which is the fire prevention education. I mean, I've taken my kids to some of those too, so it's good to have that, and also you're preserving the history of these aspects. So, yeah, appreciate you sharing some of those cool projects you guys are working on. What at Coast Architects is going particularly well right now that you would you know as far as you know business or team?

36:30 - Arnie
I would say our team you know we've got we just this little over a year ago sort of worked out an agreement with Matt Kennedy and Luke Morris who have been with us I think Matt's been with us 12 or 13 years don't check me don't fact check me on that maybe it's 13 now Luke's been with us for seven-ish I think and and so you know one thing when you've got a group like that you want to you want them to want to be there and you want to keep them you know so we you know Connie and I are getting we've got I think I heard Joel say he had been in for 40 years I think I'm at 37 years so you're starting to look at you know how are we gonna get out and And, you know, does anybody want to keep this thing going? And so luckily, both of them were very interested in, you know, becoming partners and keeping it going. And so I'm really proud now that we've got a transition plan in place that ultimately they'll take over things and probably kick Connie and I out the back door at some point, which is okay. You know, hopefully we can get there. I always thought I would work, I would keel over at the computer might still but you know I always figured I would never retire and I think you know having grandkids and having them nearby all of a sudden your perspective changes a little bit well maybe I could finally I don't ever see myself not working I'll do something but you know maybe I could start to see some type of retirement in my future so yeah so that's out there not immediate well maybe they can do some of those 10% things that you don't yeah yeah I've already tried dumping it on them but they push bag, but no, they helped me a lot. They're a good team and we've got, you know, two younger interns that are really working well with them and, you know, what I said, getting back to sort of being in the office, some of being out of the office, what I tell people I've noticed a lot is my wife seems a lot happier when I'm in Charleston for a couple of days and my office staff seems a lot happier when I'm in Beaufort for a couple of days, so it's a win-win for all of them. It's leaving me kind of scratching head to where I stand in things. Yeah, does anybody want you around? Yeah, I'm sure they do. What do you think the secret is?

38:52 - Andy
I mean, in this day and age, I mean, keeping somebody at your company for seven years, 13 years plus, not to mention, you know, you've been with your partner for 20-something years. How do you keep...

39:05 - Arnie
It might have something to do with that chain and, you know, shackle I have on them, but no. I think we definitely value family time and we let our employees know that. When we were small, one of the reasons we wanted to stay small was when we need to be flexible. Somebody needs a little extra time. I've worked in a corporate environment where everything is down to the 15-minute increment and you've got to clock out or take time off to go to the doctor's appointment and that wasn't the environment we wanted. You know, trying to realize everybody's got a life outside the office, that the number of hours you work is not critical. Getting the work done is critical and meeting deadlines. And that may mean, you know, once in a blue moon, you've got to work a few extra hours here or there, but we also don't want you to burn out. We don't want you to sacrifice, you know, your family over a project. It's just not worth it. You know, project will get there one way or the other, the family's way more important. So, I think if you ask them, they would have that same response to how important that is. What's your structure? I mean, you have how many architects? So, we have three registered architects and then one other one who, for all practical purposes, has the experience of being registered. And so, we're top-heavy, you know, because both registered and a lot of firms you might find one or two registered architects and you can have 15 or 20 people working under them. But there's some pros to that I mean because you've got experienced people doing the work and then you know we're bringing interns along to get them the experience and so you know ultimately they'll work into that position too. You're growing the profession while you're at it you know. Your business is a bit of an incubator you want to you want to train people and make them better for the profession. Yeah.

41:12 - Unidentified Speaker
It boils down to it. I mean, as far as projects go, you know, so there's different ways to arrange project management. I mean, I would imagine, do you just give it to a project architect?

41:24 - Arnie
Yeah, so usually, so, I mean, the way it's kind of just happened is Connie and Matt work a lot together, and Luke and I work a lot together, and then the intern of balance based on where the project is you know they'll work more we may have two of them working on a bigger project with the two of us so there's four of us working on a project um or they may split up so it just really depends it is project specific but then that's not a set thing uh matt and I are working on some community centers right now so uh we cross over depending on the project and depending on schedules and yeah um so so there's some flexibility but But it generally kind of falls into kind of the two older partners, because now Matt and Luke are partners too. But we kind of operate primarily in that structure just because we've gotten used to working. I don't think Matt could stand working with me. I think that's really what it was. But he didn't like me making my schedules. And Luke just was too young to complain about it loudly. Got stuck with me and I think that I still think that's that's the toughest thing is scheduling and you know knowing how long it's going to take to do the work but then also you're you know we're dealing with multiple projects you you have the same thing you know you're working with lots of different architects and multiple projects and you know one of the projects to talk about today should be out for bid right now but it got stopped You know, it's on hold, checking for funding and maybe scope cuts and all that. So, I have that on my schedule and now it's come off the schedule. You know, I don't know when it's going to go back on. So, it can get a little challenging there and then you're trying to fill in those holes, you know. Right. You just stopped work.

43:15 - Andy
Now what? Okay, let me switch gears.

43:16 - Arnie
Switch gears and then at some point that project is going to come back and you've got to go pick it up and go, where did we leave it?

43:24 - Andy
Yeah. Which, you know, I can see the pros and cons of a company where you're small enough that you can be a gazelle. You can shift and adapt. Like, hey, they stopped work. We're going to work on this project over here or vice versa.

43:39 - Andy
I think that's an advantage of being smaller.

43:41 - Andy
I want to go into the title of the podcast a little bit here, Enhance, and want to just see what your opinion of, I mean, we've hit on it some in terms of, I think you actually use that word earlier, enhance how some of the work you do, but what does that word mean to you in terms of the work you do and how you enhance the world around you?

44:07 - Arnie
Well, you know, sort of in simplistic terms is just, you know, leave the world a better place. You know, if you can, like I said, sometimes we're doing very utilitarian projects, but if we can do them better than they would have been done if we weren't involved, then you're contributing. You You know, we're so lucky to live where we live and work where we live, so if what we do enhances this, then it's all the better. And, you know, beauty's in the eye of the beholder. There may be some people that look and go, I don't think that enhances anything at all, but hopefully, you know, we're making the world a better place.

44:48 - Andy
Yeah, I mean, some projects more than others, right? Yeah, not every project.

44:53 - Arnie
know I'm doing a project right now it's under construction and I probably won't say who it is but it's they said oh we want to do a little metal building warehouse and you know we work in different modes we work sometimes with a contractor who's already involved in the project or in a design build mode sometimes we're we're the architect and they're bidding the project out or they have a contractor this is one that we were working with a contractor I love to work with and went to meet the client and I was like, what's going is, oh, it's just a 6,000 square foot metal building. I was like, okay, that's pretty simple. And then when they took us out to some containers they had out back that they were storing whatever was gonna go in this warehouse and I'll walk in and there's these boxes and I'm like, what is this? And they're like, oh, it's urine samples. I was like, well, I have never done, you know, a warehouse for urine samples. And then I noticed there's a radioactive, you know, there's little signs, you know, I'm like, so why are you storing, and they do the sampling for places like Savannah River Plant. So if you're working around radiation, and I think they also do some healthcare workers, you know, that are exposed, they periodically take urine samples. Well, they have to keep them for I don't know how many years, seven or eight years or something like that. So they got all these urine samples around. So I'm doing a urine sample warehouse right now.

46:26 - Arnie
Enhancing the world around us, right?

46:28 - Andy
Yeah, enhancing the world.

46:29 - Arnie
Something's got to be done. So yeah, that's not one that's going to go on the front of the website. Yeah, exactly. But it is interesting. So I had to learn a little bit about that. I think that's kind of cool in a way.

46:42 - Andy
Yeah, that's pretty interesting. I mean, we all have our projects that definitely fit that interesting category.

46:47 - Arnie
I did turn down the strip club one time. I did give an offer to do a strip club and I was like, I think we can pass on that.

46:57 - Andy
Yeah, I have a couple like that. I pass on from time to time, but is there anything else that drives you for like your job? It may not even necessarily be the buildings.

47:07 - Andy
It might be just the work that you do daily.

47:10 - Arnie
There's definitely a drive. I think because I do love do. It makes it real easy to get up in the morning and say, let's get to work. So, I think, yeah, I think that's applicable to any profession, you know, any person is. You're going to do it for most of your life, so, you know, choose something that you really enjoy doing because you might as well, no need to be miserable. So, yeah, I think I am a bit of a workaholic. My wife tells me that.

47:40 - Andy
Yeah, but sometimes you you do get away from work, right? And do you have anything you like to do?

47:47 - Arnie
More and more. Definitely love getting out. I'm huge outdoors. Love to fish. I think you know that. I've talked about, you know, getting out and fly fishing. Both here on the coast and then, you know, it's nice. I'm going on a trip next week, going to Houston. So I'm going to go out with a guide and do some fishing while we're down in Galveston.

48:10 - Andy
doing work, like a conference?

48:12 - Arnie
No, no, so it's actually a medical checkup going, you know, so if we're going to Houston, I mean, no offense to anybody that might be in Houston, but been there a couple of times. I want to see something else now, so we're gonna drive on down to Galveston and spend a couple of days after we get through with the visit there. So, yeah, so it's cool. Yeah, I'd love to travel more. I hope I get the chance. We finally I finally got one good trip in for the first time. You know, you gotta pay for kids, you gotta get them through school, college, and married, and I've done that with all three of my kids, and so now, all of a sudden, I'm like, besides saving for retirement, I'm like, I wanna go see some places, and we just took a trip this past year to Turkey, and it was fabulous, fantastic. Hiked, and biked, and swam, and kayaked, and did all kinds of cool things in Turkey. It was a great trip. So, our guests are talking about your trip to Banff, and that's on my list. I want to go to Banff, but maybe not in the winter.

49:14 - Andy
It sounded really cold. Yeah, they say it's actually more popular in the summer. Yeah, yeah. I definitely see the snow.

49:20 - Arnie
August here, 100 degrees, 100% humidity. I can hear Canada calling me. Yeah. Hope to get there sometime.

49:26 - Andy
One day we might have to go back and check it out during the summer. Yeah, yeah. But there is one other hobby that we share.

49:33 - Arnie
Yeah. Oh, I knew This is the embarrassing moment here of truth. What hobby do we share? We probably met first, I guess. Did we meet first?

49:44 - Arnie
I think we probably met on a, you know, I don't know, but yeah.

49:51 - Arnie
We'll give Marcia a plug. Revolution Ballroom Dancing. I'm not sure how you guys got started there, but that's where I met Andy and Esther. Probably the first And yeah, so I guess right before the pandemic, I had two daughters, they both got married the same summer, which was a financial fiasco. But I told Marsha this, I said, you know, I grew up Baptist, we didn't dance. And here they were gonna have weddings and I did not know how to dance. And so we actually, before we moved here, took some lessons just to, you know, go, okay, I'm not just gonna dance, out there swaying back and forth at least I can do something and so I'm actually the one that gave Mitzi, my wife, lessons for Valentine's and I guess that was 2019 and so we did start there and then of course pandemic hit and everything kind of stopped and we ended up moving to Beaufort and that's how we found Revolution Ballroom here in Beaufort and you know it's really it's been a nice thing It's sort of our date night for us. I don't know if you feel that way, but it's like something we can do together, and I'm not very good at it, but I'm learning, and I'm using my brain, and I'm moving.

51:13 - Andy
Those are things that are important, too. It's fun. We get to see friends like you and Mitzi each week. We talk. We hang out. We dance. It's our date night. It's something that we enjoy. We've been doing a lot of the Argentine tango recently, but I think you do once a week or you do both?

51:32 - Arnie
We go a couple of nights a week. We've been doing three, sometimes four. I guess we have a sad life that that's all we have to do together.

51:42 - Andy
So if I'm not fishing, I'm dancing, I guess.

51:46 - Arnie
What's your favorite dance right now?

51:48 - Arnie
I like the rumba. It's kind of a good, useful dance. I like swinging. Both of those, really, we perform where, although I did get wrangled into doing this Lafayette thing they just did, but generally speaking, we're just doing it for social, you know, being able to dance when we go out somewhere and there's a band, it's nice to be able to get out there and enjoy it. Those are good. Waltz is pretty nice, but it's not something you can use everywhere, you know.

52:17 - Andy
Right. Well, maybe at a wedding. I've learned salsa. I love salsa.

52:21 - Arnie
It's a lot of fun, you know.

52:23 - Andy
So, yeah, I would say you're pretty versatile in your dancing and in your architecture.

52:30 - Unidentified Speaker
That's right, just like architecture.

52:32 - Andy
You know, I don't have any one style.

52:36 - Arnie
So, if you had to describe your architecture style in a dance, what would it be?

52:44 - Arnie
That's your alternate curveball, right? Yeah, there you go. Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Viennese waltz because that thing is just the craziest dance ever. You're just twirling around and can't, you know, catch your breath, so that's how my work feels like sometimes, you know, as you're just going at it so hard, so maybe Viennese waltz. Not one of my favorite dances because I think it's hard, but work can be hard, too. Well, and you have a musical background.

53:15 - Andy
Yeah, luckily I do.

53:16 - Arnie
Esther and I both are like, we gotta count. We gotta be on the beat. I think my wife is always, she goes, you don't have to be on the beat. It's okay.

53:27 - Andy
I'm like, no, we have to be on the beat. Yeah, and Esther helps keep me in the beat. She's got that musical background too, yeah. And I'm like, okay, can you count me in? Because I didn't have any musical background when I started, but yeah, and I did have one more question about that actually. Do you think music has any impact on your... I mean, this is not just a funny question, but do you think music has an impact on design or architecture in some way?

53:57 - Arnie
Well, if I'd have known you were going to ask me that question, I could have pulled out my thesis from graduate school, but that was actually kind of the thing I did, and I had thought about it a long time, but 30-something years ago, was talking about the influence that music can have on architecture and the commonalities. And yeah, you know, rhythm is like, you know, music has a certain rhythm and a certain pattern and architecture is the same way, whether it's columns or windows or, you know, buildings have a lot of those same, you know, features. They have harmony, you know, cohesiveness, like I said, rhythm. Patterns all those things are they kind of cross over you know and in the kind of world of academia you can take that a little bit further in real life I don't think you know that okay I'm gonna listen to you know Lady Gaga sing the same song over and over and there's a building is gonna come out of that but right but I think there are some you know influences yeah you know obviously can translate between the two.

55:13 - Andy
That's interesting to think about. I've heard that parallel, and then I'm looking here at these balusters. There's a rhythm to that.

55:23 - Arnie
I can see that. There's bright, happy songs, and there's dark, ominous songs, and the same thing. Buildings can express those kinds of things too. There's some relationship there. Very cool.

55:39 - Andy
Well, that's a fun way to sort of bring it to a close. Was there anything that I didn't touch on today that you think...

55:47 - Arnie
Yeah, I think we've covered the gamut, so we probably bored your listeners to death, but hey. Well, maybe we'll put a B-roll of you doing the Viennese in here.

55:57 - Andy
Oh my gosh.

55:58 - Arnie
Don't even let Marsha know about it or she'll send it to you, so yeah. Awesome. Yeah, there's some blackmail video out there probably of me dancing.

56:07 - Andy
So, we'll put the website up for you. Is there any other way to reach you?

56:12 - Arnie
We have Instagram, Facebook, so I get my guys to shoot you links on those, and we'll do the same thing.

56:20 - Arnie
We'll feature the podcast.

56:21 - Andy
Awesome.

56:22 - Andy
Yeah, you got your social media team put on it?

56:25 - Arnie
Yeah, yeah.

56:26 - Arnie
One of the interns is better at it than me.

56:30 - Arnie
We kept saying, oh, we're gonna post every week.

56:33 - Arnie
and then you would get busy.

56:35 - Arnie
I mean, you were talking about that with some of your stuff.

56:39 - Arnie
You get these good ideas, but you get busy and you don't get all those posts done that you think you're gonna do.

56:46 - Andy
So yeah, I'll share that info with you and we'll do the same thing.

56:50 - Arnie
We'll try to shoot it out on our side too.

56:53 - Arnie
Get a little exposure, never hurts.

56:55 - Andy
Awesome, thanks Arnie.

56:56 - Arnie
Great, thank you.

56:57 - Arnie
Good to talk again.

56:58 - Madeline
Hey everybody, thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhanced.

57:02 - Madeline
and please leave a like, a subscribe, or a follow and we'll see