0:01 - Madeline
Okay, so on today's episode, we had Bryce Batts, who is a recruiter in the AEC industry. You want to go more into that?

0:08 - Andy
Well, she had a few roles that she did. She's co-founder and chief matchmaker at Career Collective AEC, staffing and also certified career coach at Bryce Batts Career Coach. She's got 15 years in the talent acquisition and career strategy with the AEC. And also has a podcast called Wine After Work.

0:33 - Madeline
I really enjoyed this episode. I thought one thing I thought was funny was talking about the difference in like generational hiring where it's like if you hire a Gen Zer, they're more likely to quit after a year as opposed to an older generation where they're going to stay 10, 20 in one firm or job. And I can kind of relate to that. I'm not in the AEC industry, but I worked at an ice cream shop for just a week over a year I think. And I was like, I don't like how this is not flexible. I don't like the pay. I don't like all these things. And I'm ready to move on to the next thing just because I don't want to work there for the rest of my life.

1:08 - Andy
Yeah, definitely. I think having early jobs helps you in your long-term career as well. But yeah, working in a part-time job for a year, that's insane in this day and age compared to some of the people in the AEC industry who can't seem to even muster up a year. I mean, my company, we're successfully hitting that goal, of course, but I think there's a lot of people with those challenges. And we learned a lot about the challenges in the AEC industry with regard to hiring, with regard to retaining employees. And she gave some tips on that as far as what some things we could do. What are some other things that you learned or you thought interesting about today's episode?

1:53 - Madeline
Well when she talked about the difference between an architect and engineer, I can't remember exactly what she said, but I've thought about this before, how like engineers are usually more analytical, they're thinkers, they're on the quieter side. Architects are usually the outgoing fun ones. And one thing I found very interesting about this is the fact that like engineers, architects are more likely to be, they're the passionate ones in the business. They're the artsy ones. They're like Joel Newman, And that was the kind of thing that made me think about this. You know, while engineers are more dedicated and quieter in the way they work, you know?

2:27 - Andy
Yeah, well, somebody's got to figure it out. Somebody's got to be the intelligent one. Yeah. And somebody's got to be interesting and make the building beautiful. That's why it works well together. Yeah, so we work together well, right? And then the contractors kind of get it all done, right? Yeah. Like, y'all just need to... Go away. All right. So, yeah, awesome. Well, this is the... I guess we can go ahead and jump to the intro. My name is Andy Richardson and I'm a structural engineer. I've been doing this 27 years and this is the Enhanced Podcast. This is my daughter and also producer Madeline. So we are here to help those that are in the AEC industry. We want to help them be inspired, educated, and entertained by learning what and why of professional in the AEC industry. Let's get started.

3:23 - Madeline
Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why.

3:31 - Andy
Well, hey, Bryce. It's good to have you today. Welcome to the Enhance podcast.

3:36 - Bryce
Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

3:39 - Andy
Definitely. And this is the first time we've met you. Why don't you just start me out, get me up to speed with what you're all about and what we're talking about today?

3:51 - Bryce
Well, on the personal side, I'm a mom to two girls, been married for 20 years. And funny enough, my husband is in the AEC industry. So I've been in the industry for, gosh, almost 20 years now. I co-founded Career Collective. We're an AEC staffing firm. We do direct hire, permanent placement nationwide. I also consult with clients who are looking to streamline and really overhaul their hiring processes. They need help attracting and attracting talent, retaining talent, and then I'm also a podcaster. I host Women in AEC, Wine After Work, and I have a book coming out in October called The Career Architect.

4:35 - Andy
Okay, awesome. Well, you have a lot going on. What's the most Can you highlight maybe one or two of your shows recently that have been interesting?

4:45 - Bryce
Yeah So I I highlight this chapter in the book with Alice Draper She's a writer and she talks about gamifying Rejection and I thought that was really cool because in sales or in business Also, you get so many nose. So it's like how can you take the nose? And receive them gracefully and keep going until you get a yes. So I just really loved her perspective on gamifying rejection, because any time you put yourself out there, there's going to be rejection that comes along with it. Yeah. And then another episode that was really great was Jim Riney from Friesen Nichols and what he's done for the team there. You know, they're they've been in business for so long and they're consistently and constantly growing Opening new offices hiring people and they did it for a really long time with no TA team So he and I got to know each other on LinkedIn. I started liking his post He started liking mine and he does something called AEC chats on Fridays just I think with other TA people in the industry and Ask him well instead of hosting a chat be on my podcast?" And he said yes. And it was a great conversation just about what's needed in talent acquisition. I think they're one of the top firms with their intern program that they have. And it's just really cool to see what he's done in the way of creating a TA team and what they've been able to do since then.

6:23 - Andy
Yeah. Okay. What were some of the findings from that particular Show that you did and what was the gentleman's name again?

6:32 - Bryce
Uh, jim riney from jim, right?

6:34 - Andy
Yep Yeah, so he's interesting in that Yeah, he's in texas.

6:40 - Bryce
Um, There's several interesting things and probably stuff, you know as well, you know always built be building your pipeline Um, I think you always have to be talking to people because you know They might not be interested in making a move today, but maybe six months from now they They're ready to make a change and, you know, you've stayed in contact with them. He talks a lot about acquisitions too. And, you know, some people have acquisition fatigue. We see it happening with so many AEC firms now. And just how to navigate that, you know, you may find it's still a great fit for you, but if you don't, you know, how to look for a new position. He did talk about their internship program a little bit. You know, obviously AEC, talent market is so tight and we need more people going to school for engineering and architecture. And so it's like how do we get students to you know get AEC on their radar and then stay in AEC because now we're finding a lot of especially mechanical and electrical engineers have so many options. You know they end up working for Tesla or Amazon and on a recent call with We saw even that when candidates are applying to roles with our clients as soon as they do that They're also applying to Amazon So I found that really interesting. I mean they've got options and we know AEC is typically not the highest paying industry They can go work for a Tesla or an Amazon and make more money.

8:14 - Andy
Yeah Wow Yeah, I mean that explains to me me, maybe I should be listening to the AEC chats and more of Jim's show about talent acquisition because, I mean, definitely a challenge. It's been a challenge for me as a business owner, I know, and I'm certainly sure as well as others. In fact, recently I did a LinkedIn post and just said, you know, what's the biggest headache that you're experiencing? And one of the One of my colleagues said the biggest, no question about it, is related to this piece of talent acquisition, retaining talent, finding talent. It's really what seems to be a big part of it. Yeah, but that seems to be one of the biggest challenges. What are you, and that's what your business is. Your day job if you will. What are you finding is working in that that works the best for you and what's working I guess is what I'm getting at.

9:27 - Bryce
Yeah with Career Collective when we you know we've got so many clients but as you know some are really great clients that are really bought in and others aren't so I think if you can find those clients who truly want a partnership they don't want to just candidate, but they want to, you know, tell you about their benefits, really tell you why someone should work for their company, because it's all about selling the company and the opportunity. So the more we know about the company or the client, the better we can sell it to the candidate. And then the more we know about the candidate, the better match we can make. So I think it's really about listening and getting clear on what the candidate wants and then what the expectations from the client are as well. So you can make the best match possible because if you know what the client's culture is and you know You know what their growth path is their benefits and why someone would want to work there and then on the candidate side if you truly know why they're looking Then you can make that match and you can be transparent with both parties and for somebody like an AEC industry professional, you know a candidate coming out of school or I mean most for the A and the E side anyway would be coming out of school.

10:43 - Andy
I guess you could have switching jobs too, but I think those people would be locked into the industry, right? The A and the E side. But you also have the coming out of school, so that's probably the ones that you would see more diverting to, like the Teslas of the world. But people that are in the AE industry, do you find that they just want to be at the architect or a structural engineer or like a civil engineer, those type of professionals? Or what is it that you're finding on that front? If that question made sense. I mean, as far as to tie into your question about engineers and architects leaving to go to work for Tesla, mostly engineers, mechanical and such. But do you find that there's a core that just want to work in the profession or?

11:37 - Bryce
I think there's some people who definitely love the built environment and want to stay in that but then I also see those mid, you know, mid-level professionals who are getting burnt out and those are the ones that are then pivoting to Tesla or Amazon or somewhere like that or even architects who are pivoting out of the industry into tech or something else because what they feel like what they're doing is not sustainable, the hours they're putting in, they're just burnt out or they're not getting the pay they want. So, you know, I think on both sides, you've got to have better communication, you've got to set better boundaries and start having those conversations a lot sooner before you reach the burnout point or before you reach, you know, the point of no return.

12:24 - Andy
Right, right. Is there anything, is it just the money? Is that what's driving the mechanicals and things to go over?

12:32 - Bryce
I mean, it's definitely a part of it. But I think after COVID, we saw so many AEC firms say, OK, you can be remote or you can be hybrid. And now they want them all back in the office, whereas, you know, Amazon and some of these other places are saying, yeah, you can be remote and we're OK with that. So money is always a driver. But I think it's flexibility, too.

12:55 - Andy
Yeah. Yeah, so if you're willing to have a remote company, it's more palatable. And that's what we're finding. I mean, we're a remote company, but there are definitely pros and cons. I mean, the communication is harder. You have to be very diligent with the communication and the teamwork piece to really have that connectivity, that collaboration. That's my finding anyway.

13:22 - Bryce
No, I definitely agree. And then I know, you know, it's a very collaborative industry and you have to be able to do that. So I'm curious how you do that remotely, how your people collaborate well.

13:36 - Andy
Well, I mean, we don't have it all figured out. That's one thing. But we do some things well, and we're still trying to figure out a lot. I mean, I think definitely having technology is a big help, you know, these technologies have with Google Meet and Slack. We use a good project management system to make sure people know exactly what the next job up is, kind of like an Uber ticket mentality. Okay, what's the next task? What's the next job? Project management is really important, but project management is really important no matter what, whether you're in office or out of office. That's some of the things we're finding and communication, project management communication, that's what project management really boils down to is just communication, which is what you were saying a minute ago about the hiring. But I think there's just so much broken. I think there's a lot broken with our industry, frankly, and I don't know that it's new, but I think the post-COVID has maybe magnified certain aspects of it. And that's what I think is pushing these professionals away from it. It's like they like the built environment perhaps, but they don't like it that much. I mean, do you agree with that?

15:05 - Bryce
I do agree. Yeah. I mean, they may like it, but is it worth their well-being if they're having to drive an hour each day, each way, and it depends on the city that you're in and where you live geographically, because obviously New York is not the same as Raleigh or Florida. Each city has its different pros and cons as well, but yeah, that is what I'm seeing.

15:32 - Andy
Awesome. So AEC industry, you didn't start out in the AEC industry. What brought you over to this? Your husband, was it something else that kind of brought you into that?

15:46 - Bryce
So I went to NC State and so did he. And then after school, we both moved to South Florida. He got a great job with a design firm in Fort Lauderdale that did a lot of resort design. And I went to school for business and was trying to decide what I wanted to do. I did a couple of different things after college, but went back to get my MBA. Met a friend there who was doing a you see recruiting and she said I think you'll really like this It's sales, but it's not because you're matching people and jobs And this is what then at the time he was my boyfriend. She's like, this is what he does. This would be great So I was like, I'll give it a shot and I did really enjoy it. I loved it and It's what I've been doing ever since Awesome So you've helped 800 people find their dream jobs.

16:40 - Andy
This is according to your profile, I suppose. You kind of alluded to this a little bit ago, but what's the secret to finding that perfect match?

16:50 - Bryce
Yeah, I think it comes down to listening. It's not just what's on the resume, but it's reading between the lines. We talk to so many people and people will give a generic answer. OK, well, what does that mean? You know, what kind of growth, when, where? So it's really, you know, digging down deep and figuring out what their values are, what their goals may be outside of work are, what makes them feel alive professionally, and then pairing it with a company that really needs someone like that. And as I said earlier, some companies will just give you a job description and say, go find me somebody. But we need to know more about the company, you know, we need to know what their team dynamics are and culture. And that's where the magic happens when both sides feel seen and heard and are excited about one another. I'd say a lot of times it's like dating. You know, the timing has to be right. They both have to like each other and see the pros and the perks of working with one another.

17:54 - Andy
And so I want to go into your book a little bit that you You said you just this is a hard copy book or just an e-book or yeah hard copy book.

18:04 - Bryce
It'll be published launch date is Tentatively scheduled for October 1st. So you're one of the first that I'm talking to about the book, which is exciting Okay. Yeah awesome, and it's called the career architect so Tell me a little bit about that Yeah, I've had so many amazing women on my podcast and I find they're are so many similarities in that maybe they felt like they were going up the career ladder, but the ladder was leaning on the wrong wall, and they didn't figure that out till much later. Or they've got this beautifully written resume, and everything looks good on paper, but it doesn't feel great inside. So it's really about designing your career to fit with your vision and your values and having that career autonomy. Because I see, again, it goes back You know when I first started placing people making that match, you know, it's like what do you really want? And a lot of people don't know so the book is created with questions at the end of each chapter and Then a workbook to accompany it to really help people dig in and dial in to what they really want So it does it give you give some examples or anything or what's some highlights? Yeah, it does. It gives some examples some you know, real world application. And then I bring in to the two different chapters of the book conversations I had on the podcast. So I think it's really for those high achievers who are asking, you know, is this all there is? It's for someone who's really craving more purpose. It's for the professional who wants to stop drifting and start really designing their career. I think it really resonates with women in male dominated and those mid-career professionals who are feel like they're at a crossroads and honestly anyone who's navigating burnout or You know wanting to reinvent themselves and and maybe they don't want to quit their job And and I don't think they have to do that It's just about speaking up and asking for what you want and maybe setting some of those boundaries Yeah Okay, and what is unique about?

20:19 - Andy
What is the unique about a woman in? The AEC professional, particularly the architect side, that is challenging?

20:28 - Bryce
Yeah, I think it could be a woman in architecture, engineering, or really any male-dominated industry. I think what you'll see is, you know, there's still a lot of guilt women carry when they're working outside the home or, you know, they enjoy working and that's what they want to do. They've got guilt they're still carrying a lot of the mental load so even if they have an amazing spouse you know they're still probably taking the kids to school they're still dealing with everyone's schedule and trying to keep track of it sports plus school plus working and then if the kids get sick a lot of times it you know still falls on the woman so it's how do you get your job done and show up for work and be successful but then also show up at at home the way you need to and not feel pulled in two different directions at all times.

21:25 - Andy
Yeah, what's the answer to that? How do you?

21:29 - Bryce
Oh, the million dollar question. I think it starts with having those honest conversations and knowing what your values are. I know I'm someone who really craves flexibility. When we started Career We set flex hours 7 to 4 8 to 5 or 9 to 6 Mainly because I knew I needed to drop my kids off and be able to pick them up after school We also offer hybrid schedule again because having two days at home where I can pick them up Makes my life easier. It's better for our family. So I think putting things like that in place we offer Paternity leave so I think companies that I can offer maternity and paternity leave. That's really helpful. We have unlimited PTO So I try to keep all those things in mind when we start a career collective because To be successful in any workplace, you know, you've got to have flexibility. I believe especially as a working parent mom or dad Yeah, how does how does unlimited PTO work? Mmm And, um, I mean, recruiters know that they're kind of always on, you know, people are going to call you at night, email you at night. So that's where you've really got to set those boundaries. Like, okay, this is when I eat dinner. So maybe I'm not going to take calls then, but maybe I'll check my email for 10 minutes after dinner. Um, so setting boundaries like that, but I can say before we opened career collective three and a half years ago, You know, I had two kids while recruiting and they know I would answer calls in the car with clients, like, okay kids, be quiet, so-and-so's calling. And they knew, they knew the drill because they knew I was working. And I think that's good for your kids to see.

23:25 - Andy
Okay, so yeah, I mean, we've talked a lot about balance and the career architect. It sounds like an exciting book. What was it that really got you to think I need to write this book and get this out there for the public and for these architects.

23:43 - Bryce
Yeah. You know, I've been coaching people for the last five years, and I just see so many similarities. Yeah, there's still not a one size fits all formula. So I think it's about custom designing your career and being really intentional. And that's why I wanted to get this book out there as I mentioned there's questions and a workbook so it helps you really think through what you want because no one's going to give you you know come to you and just give you permission you already have everything you need to build the career that works for you and not just one that looks good from the outside but one that really aligns with what what you want so those reflection exercises and the journal prompts and those real world strategies and stories think are what brings it home for people.

24:35 - Andy
Yeah so what is it about journaling that you think is so effective?

24:43 - Bryce
I think same as talking it out you know when you start talking to a therapist or a coach you will start having these insights and I think it's the same if you can find a quiet place to journal or write things down things will come up for you when you give yourself the space to really think and dream. So I think that's always really helpful.

25:06 - Andy
Yeah. Is there any journaling prompts that you think have been significant in your career or in some of your clients careers?

25:15 - Bryce
For me personally, there's a five minute journal on Amazon that I use. It's a gratitude journal, but it asks a couple of questions. I'm trying to think of the layout right three questions that I answer in the morning and then set an intention for the day and then it's like three questions and another reflection at night and I feel like that's really helpful because I think we can always find gratitude or a ray of sunshine in our day no matter if it's the most mundane or you know stressful day there's always some sort of highlight something good going on and so I try to focus on the on the good parts and and be grateful for those.

25:59 - Andy
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's like, I don't really have anything good. But then when you really dig in, and like, yeah, you think, okay, there's gotta be something positive happening, right? Well, hey, I'm still sucking wind. That's, that's good. When you start really saying, you know, there's a lot of good things, you know, hey, I have a job, it's, it's causing stress today. But I have a job is bringing we've made progress. And maybe I'm not where I want to be, but we focus so much on, you know, the idea of where we're not and not where we've been, you know, the gap versus the gain idea.

26:38 - Bryce
Oh, that's what I was just thinking of I Read that book earlier this year.

26:41 - Andy
I haven't Read it yet. Okay, it's good.

26:44 - Bryce
Well, it's exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, like we focus on the gap all the time instead of these gains we're making. Along the way and it's like our mind is programmed to focus on the gap. Yeah. Especially as entrepreneurs.

26:59 - Andy
So that's great that you're encouraging people to have those times for journals. I mean, I imagine one of the biggest challenges is just creating that time, which obviously is a priority as a decision. So what do you tell your clients when they come back and say, you know, I just don't have the time for that? Does that ever come up?

27:22 - Bryce
Occasionally, but I think, you know, we have time for anything we make a priority. And this is a five minute journal, so it literally takes two minutes in the morning, two minutes at night, so not even five minutes. So I feel like anyone can carve that out.

27:38 - Andy
Yeah, fair enough. So I want to know a little bit more about the Career Collective. And how you really, I guess, how you help your clients? I mean, how does that work generally?

27:55 - Bryce
Yeah, so myself and my business partner started Career Collective three and a half years ago. We were both working for a different recruiting firm that we had been at for a long time. It was a fine place, there just, there wasn't a lot of upward mobility and the culture was not great recruiting can you I mean I'm sure you've heard terrible stories of recruiters it seems like we get a really bad rap or people think we're like use card salesmen and so it can be very dog-eat-dog and that's the kind of environment that we came from so when we started career collective we wanted to have a really great culture and that's why we call it a collective but we do direct hire permanent placement And what's really amazing is you know, you're running your own desk. It is very entrepreneurial We had clients who chased us down after we left and that's the thing you're establishing a relationship with your client and When I turned a lot of those clients over two years ago to our recruiters, you know, those were like Solid relationships that I built I felt like I was like handing over my most prized Possessions, you know, this is Mike from this firm in Tennessee. He feels like a grandpa to me I've known him for this long. This is what he does in his spare time You know, these are the kinds of people he likes to hire and that's how you do the job Well, because you know the clients like, you know that intimately Yeah, you get a sense of what they want.

29:34 - Andy
Yeah, and and I have somebody that I work with and I have that type of I have that type of relationship.

29:41 - Andy
That's incredible.

29:42 - Andy
I need a new engineer. You got to go find me somebody. I haven't really needed that recently, but it's good to have that type of relationship that you can work with.

29:51 - Bryce
Well, I feel like if you're remote, you probably have no problem hiring. Or less of a problem, I should say.

30:01 - Andy
Yeah. Retainage has been a problem. But no, it hasn't been super easy either. Because we're still competing, you know, the cash problem. And so, you know, we're a smaller group, so we can't compete with some of these big, you know, companies like AECOM or, you know, Thornton-Thomas SETI, I can't compete with them, or Nucor.

30:31 - Bryce
That's exactly what I was gonna say, because we specialize in helping small to mid-sized firms. Because maybe they have one HR person or they have one recruiter you know but they they still need our help because they don't have a full recruiting team and it is a challenge to compete you know for our clients with a Jacobs or an AECOM because they have deep pockets and they can allow their people to work remotely.

30:55 - Andy
Yeah yeah exactly and I mean I talked to one engineer you know this was probably a year ago and I'm making this much money, which was more than I could afford. And I mean, I'm not crazy low compared to those. It's just like that 10% difference or it's just like, yeah, I can't quite get there. I can't quite provide the same level of benefit. I mean, we provide a full package of benefits, but I can't necessarily provide all of those. I can provide more PTO. That's why I was curious about the PTO. Like, okay, that's interesting. Explore that a little bit more. Yeah.

31:34 - Bryce
Well, I was gonna say that's how small firms can get creative It's like what can you offer? That's not necessarily going to cost you a lot You know, we're 20 people. So we have fun Fridays where everyone gets out of the office and we go do something fun together That's the last Friday of each month that doesn't cost us a lot by any means But it's great for our culture and same with the PTO and hybrid schedule and flex hours doesn't cost us a lot and you know you can review your PTO quarterly to see if someone's abusing it but for the most part we haven't had that issue and to date I have never denied someone's PTO request and we have you know because as long as you're still producing and getting the job done I don't care if you want to spend three weeks in Europe and then you know take another three weeks at end of the year that's fine if you're getting the job done.

32:29 - Andy
Yeah okay so you just have to you have to submit it and it's like yeah we're still we're still above board as a company.

32:35 - Bryce
That's right we're still tracking it we know what's going on but yeah take us take what you need.

32:43 - Andy
Now is your company is it remote is it in person?

32:47 - Bryce
We're in person but hybrid so we have Wednesdays and Fridays from home and then if they hit certain targets they get a half day Friday or Fridays off. So a four-day workweek is really appealing.

33:00 - Andy
Yeah, for sure. And you mentioned the culture. What are some things, I mean like, you know, obviously the time, the PTO, those are some of the things. Is there anything else that you really built into the culture to make it appealing to your team?

33:22 - Bryce
Yeah, I think the biggest Thing is like I said, we act as a collective so we don't have anybody here who's going to stab someone else in the back We have SOPs in place if they have questions about candidate or client ownership, but for the most part, I think everyone Understands, you know, there's always they're leading with good intent and Beyond and I'm willing to work together. There's very few issues that have come to management to be addressed because they're able to work it out on their own. And then of course the benefits, the fun Fridays, we have a President's Club trip we do once a year, a holiday party in Pinehurst once a year, and we fly people from Tampa in, they all bring a plus one. So we're doing fun things, but I know culture is more than a pizza party, it's more than snacks in the office, it's really how everyone gets along. And I think everyone here is friendly. Some of them hang out outside of the office. And so I think that's pretty cool to see them supporting one another, even outside of work.

34:31 - Andy
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that's so important that they like each other.

34:37 - Bryce
Yeah, we spend a lot of time together.

34:39 - Andy
I think the SOP is a strong point. If you know what you're supposed to do, if the work is understood and you like the work, you're going to want to do the work. I think it ties back to our original point that we were going into, which is the headaches in our industry. I think that type of thing would help companies in the AEC industry. Do you agree that that type of thing would help companies run better and therefore keep Yeah, I do.

35:17 - Bryce
I think it's companies laying out what their non-negotiables are, um, but then being willing to listen, whether it's quarterly surveys from the team or one-on-ones, you know, really take in what they're, what they're telling you and be willing to make changes based on that because things change over time. You know, we saw a big shift after COVID. Um, we're seeing now a big shift in what Gen Z wants and what, Gen X wants, you know, they don't work the same and they don't want the same things I was always money motivated and and competitive and that's what made me a great recruiter, but we have people here who just They're just competitive the money is like it's great But that's not what they're motivated by and then we have people who are motivated by the money, you know It's all different things for different people. So it's tapping into what those motivations are and making sure you're Using that to motivate them.

36:14 - Andy
Yeah, that's very true. And I mean you have it you've seen it probably on both sides of the But I would think probably more on the candidate side that you're having to deal with this Aspect right of what is motivating? The candidates. Yeah Say those What are things we should be looking for?

36:34 - Bryce
Employers Yeah the candidate side you know why they're really looking to make a change because it will always come back to that and that's why I say in the beginning if they give you a fluff answer like growth okay well what do you mean by that you know what kind of growth are you looking for and when and why haven't you gotten it at your current firm what do they offer have you asked for it if you get an offer from another company are you just going to go back to your company and ask for a counter offer If so, let's save all of us a lot of time and just go ask for the raise now and let's see if they'll give it to you, rather than spinning your wheels and meeting with five different companies and getting multiple offers.

37:20 - Andy
Yeah. And that's Gen Z, I guess, is what we're talking about, generally speaking, right? Are you finding the money is less of a motivator? Is that what you're alluding to? Yeah.

37:35 - Bryce
of Gen Z. It's less of a motivator. They really want the flexibility and they want to know what your mission is and your values as a company. That is all very important to them. And they're also really impatient. So they want growth and they want it in six months and in a year. They're not going to put in 30 years at a firm and get, you know, three promotions in their lifetimes. They're just not going to stick around for that.

38:01 - Andy
Yeah. I don't blame them. Yeah, I mean, even our, you know, the Gen X or my generation, yeah, we didn't stick around usually. I mean, maybe 10 years or maybe 20 years, but not the 30 40 that my parents did. But certainly the next generation is like, can you give me six months, please?

38:22 - Bryce
Exactly. And we have clients who will come to us and they're like, well, I used a recruiter and they only stayed a year. And I'm like, well, how old is this person? That's what they do now. If they feel like they can get more money elsewhere or get more perks and it aligns more with what they're looking to do, then that is what happens, using the recruiter or not. So then you've got to figure out how do you get them to stay and how do you retain them if they are in those younger generations.

38:52 - Andy
Yeah, and that just creates more disruption in the entire industry. When all this is happening. And I think it's almost like they almost have to see the problems with these different companies before they realize, well, you know, that first one I was at really was pretty good comparatively. Right.

39:15 - Bryce
Yeah. I'll give you a case study. We have a candidate right now. He finally just declined this offer. Civil engineer in Atlanta. We got him an interview and an offer making $55,000 more than he's making currently. They're also going to give him some ownership. It took him a very long time to decide, which is always a red flag. So either we weren't asking the right questions or he wasn't giving us the answers we were looking for. We try to dig in and figure out, obviously, it's not the money. You would have already said yes, so he said he's looking to have a second child, so he wanted the flexibility His current company is hybrid this company said we'll give you flexibility But they don't have a policy in place which made him nervous They don't have a policy in writing so he didn't like that Then they're thinking about moving to a different part of Atlanta when they have another child that was gonna mean a longer So that put him off to the opportunity. And he's been with his current firm seven years, hasn't made a change. And I think he was a little scared of changing jobs. And then when he started thinking of all these factors, $55,000 on a salary, it wasn't important to him enough to make the change.

40:41 - Andy
Wow.

40:42 - Bryce
And you don't see that often because most people will jump for the money, but obviously for him, It was not the motivator.

40:49 - Andy
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, that's pretty wild. Do you still have that offer open by the way?

40:55 - Bryce
I'll be in touch after this.

40:58 - Andy
I might switch from structural over to civil. But yeah, that I got off track with that. So yeah, I mean, I think I was gonna go into the, obviously you have the general aspect of the generation. I mean, we don't want to put you into such a pigeonhole where you're, you know, obviously we're individuals in X or Z or whatever generation you're in. Because I mean, I think also that, but there are some, there are some things that are true, generally speaking. And like even amongst your verticals too, your engineers tend, like that And that sounded more like an engineer to me.

41:45 - Andy
Oh, yeah.

41:46 - Andy
That mentality of, I don't want to change. Don't change anything ever.

41:54 - Bryce
Very analytical.

41:58 - Andy
Yeah, because I bet it's probably interesting to work amongst the different verticals too, the AEC aspects of it. And because you work with all three or just the A and the E?

42:07 - Bryce
We do. We worked with all three, but we're definitely heavier in A&E rather than construction.

42:14 - Andy
Okay, but you find that to be true like between the A and the E?

42:19 - Unidentified Speaker
I do.

42:19 - Andy
This type of thing of like I bet the A would have been gone in no time.

42:24 - Bryce
Oh yeah, because architects you know they're more artistic and just so passionate about their craft and they'll put in the long hours you know that it's hard for them to cut it off and then engineers are so much more in So it's definitely two different sides of the brain there.

42:42 - Andy
Yeah. Awesome. Well, we do have a lot. I mean, we have a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners. I think we've given them some things. Is there anything else you could tell maybe a business owner as things to be looking for right now in terms of hiring, in terms of bringing in new talent that could maybe help them get ahead?

43:04 - Bryce
Yeah. Is really important. You know, if you if you have a candidate that you like, don't overthink it. Be willing to ask them what they're looking for and make the offer, obviously, if you have the backlog to support it. But I find a lot of times firms will they like somebody and then someone goes on vacation and haven't had time to talk to someone. You know, don't be spinning your wheels. It's really the speed that will hold you back. And then the Storytelling aspect, you know companies Need to be able to tell a story not just on their website, but in their employer branding so on social media The statistics are pretty wild and I can't remember exactly but I think it's like 70% of people go on Glassdoor Before they interview with a company to Read the reviews So I'm helping a company right now and retain search Glassdoor reviews are so bad and so they're working on those and it's like well, how can we do that? Let's have people who are currently working at the firm Put up a great review give them some sort of incentive if you need to like Please leave us an honest review if they're still working there Hopefully they enjoy it enough to write a positive review and let them leave an hour earlier two hours earlier Give them a gift card, you know something but the storytelling piece is so important because candidates are looking at social media, they're looking at Glassdoor and Indeed reviews to find out what it's truly going to be like working at a company, and then they're also talking to their friends and colleagues who have worked there in the past or know someone who works there. You know, AEC is still such a niche market. Everyone knows everyone. You can figure out someone who's worked there who will give you the skinny on what it's really like, So speed and storytelling.

45:00 - Andy
Okay. Well, that's interesting. I think that may be one of the reasons we're doing okay on the hiring front is just the story. We do a lot of that, you know, social media. That's great. Like with this and with, you know, I mean, you can, you can understand, you can get an insight into the company through, you know, a podcast or LinkedIn or other social medias. We try to be transparent as possible as But that's a great insight. I mean, this is the age of social media, whether you like it or not, right? That's what it is.

45:33 - Andy
That's right.

45:34 - Andy
So that's a good tip. And then, so looking the other side to candidates, we have people that are engineers, architects, maybe looking for a job. What are some things you're telling them that they should be to get ahead as well?

45:53 - Bryce
Partner with a great recruiter don't be scared to do that because they can get you into companies that aren't advertising online we know about those positions that aren't necessarily posted and They can give you the inside scoop on the benefits and things like that that you wouldn't get just applying online We all know applying online can be like applying to about a black hole So I really say work with a recruiter or reach out to your network And have them help you you know be active on LinkedIn don't be scared to DM someone on LinkedIn and say hey I see you're working here. You know I'm interested in applying for a role If you can connect with someone like that, and they can help you get an end well then they're probably gonna get a referral bonus for referring you if you're hired and Then you've got an end rather than just applying online, so it's a win-win And I find that people want to help and will be candid.

46:48 - Andy
I mean, we live in exciting times. I mean, you can direct message basically the head of any company. It's amazing. Why wouldn't you do that? I mean, maybe they don't accept it or whatever, but you could at least reach a pretty higher up person and network.

47:06 - Andy
I mean, we have basically a network event going on every single day on these social media platforms.

47:13 - Andy
It's pretty insane if you think about it.

47:15 - Andy
It's really awesome.

47:16 - Bryce
And you can just reach out and be honest about what you're looking for, you know, be upfront.

47:21 - Bryce
I'd say don't leave people in the dark.

47:24 - Bryce
You know, if you want to have a coffee or something, most people want to know why, why are you looking to get together?

47:30 - Bryce
But just be, you know, upfront about your intentions and it, yeah, the world is your oyster.

47:36 - Bryce
You can make so many connections and the worst thing that's going to happen is someone says no or reply or ghost you, which we can all get over that.

47:45 - Andy
Right.

47:46 - Andy
Yeah, I mean, exactly.

47:48 - Andy
So we started it out with the fear of no, the gamification.

47:55 - Andy
Can a candidate do the same type of gamification for their rejection as cold calling?

48:02 - Andy
So yeah, I mean, that was maybe a good way to bring it back to that.

48:06 - Andy
Well, Bryce, Was there anything you wanted to mention today that we didn't already cover or any aspects that you wanted to hit?

48:16 - Bryce
I will just say if you're an AEC firm that's hiring or needs even help with the hiring process, I would love to chat.

48:25 - Bryce
And same thing, if you're a candidate looking for a new job, let's connect.

48:30 - Bryce
I'm always on LinkedIn, happy to talk to anybody there.

48:34 - Bryce
You can DM me, I will respond.

48:36 - Bryce
And I love meeting new people, so I will help in any way that I can.

48:41 - Andy
Awesome.

48:41 - Andy
It sounds like you got a lot of great things going with your different things going on.

48:46 - Andy
Check out Bryce's book as well.

48:48 - Andy
It's called The Career Architect, if you haven't Read that, and it can help anybody in their career.

48:55 - Andy
So yeah, awesome.

48:57 - Andy
Bryce, it was great to meet you today.

48:59 - Andy
And thanks for being on the Enhanced Podcast.

49:02 - Bryce
Well, so nice to meet you.

49:03 - Bryce
It sounds like you're doing a lot of things really well at your firm, so I wish you continued success.

49:09 - Andy
Definitely.

49:10 - Andy
Thanks, Bryce.

49:11 - Andy
Take care.

49:11 - Bryce
Thank you.

49:13 - Madeline
Hey, everybody.

49:14 - Madeline
Thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhance, and please leave a like, a subscribe, or a follow, and we'll see you next time.