0:01 - Madeline
So on today's episode, we had Jonathan Wolk, and this was an episode I was really intrigued by. So he's an architect, he's in construction, and he is a real estate broker. Broker, is that how you say it? I really enjoyed this episode, and there was a funny topic you wanted to hit on.

0:19 - Andy
Oh, was there?

0:21 - Andy
Allegedly. OK.

0:21 - Andy
Do you know what a floppy disk is?

0:24 - Madeline
I don't. Is it like a hard drive?

0:27 - Andy
No, it's not a hard drive. It's a disk. It's floppy. They used to be floppy, and then they got not so floppy.

0:35 - Madeline
And then they got harder?

0:38 - Andy
Yeah. But the original, I think, was five and a quarter inches, and it was kind of a floppy feel to it, like paper almost, and you could put it into the computer, and you could make it do programs and things, and you could save information on it.

0:55 - Madeline
How is that different than a disc?

0:58 - Andy
Well, I guess it would be similar to a compact disc in some ways. It's floppy? It's square, yeah. Anyway, so we're getting off track.

1:09 - Madeline
Oh wait, I know what you're talking about.

1:11 - Madeline
It's those square things?

1:12 - Madeline
Those aren't floppy though.

1:14 - Andy
Yeah, well the smaller, the three and a half are more hard. The big ones were five and a quarter inch and they were pretty floppy. They flopped. Okay. So they were called a floppy disc.

1:28 - Madeline
Okay, well This might seem very random to the listeners, but this is something that they're gonna get to later in the episode where they're talking about like uses of technology and like what type of technology they use in his company.

1:39 - Andy
Yeah, which wasn't the primary focus of the conversation, but it was a funny thing to talk about, I guess, as an intro.

1:47 - Madeline
Yeah, so primary, I think that it was just the whole concept of they don't design a generic house or a generic building for every single person. It's like what can I customize for you and how is this going to apply for you because we're not gonna you know because they have all three aspects of contractor architect and real estate all in one Mm-hmm.

2:08 - Andy
Yeah, we get to the benefit of So Jonathan is all three he does all three with his company and so you get you know, I asked him an interesting question like which one would you want to do but we'll find out his answer, but you see that there's a benefit of having all three when you're working with somebody like him, right? Yeah. So that was really interesting. We had some fun conversations. We got into some really good inspirational aspects of why he does what he does, and also really, you know, the type of customers or clients that he works with and their And, you know, one of the reasons that he sees success in certain projects, he can see, like, okay, these people have a good why, they have a good vision. So I find that interesting, that we're, you know, one of the things we talk about on here, enhance the world around us. So, you know, in essence, we want to work with, I think what it is, is we want to work with people that also want to enhance the world around us. Yeah, for sure. Well, my name is Andy Richardson, and this is producer Madeline and this is the Enhance AEC podcast where we speak with professionals in the AEC industry and find out their why and what their vision is for what they're doing. Let's jump to the intro.

3:39 - Madeline
Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why.

3:47 - Andy
Well, uh, so Jonathan, welcome to the enhanced podcast today.

3:52 - Jonathan Wolk
Thank you for having me.

3:54 - Andy
And, um, so the first question I really want to get into, because you're, you're in, you're an architect, you're a contractor, you're a real estate agent, a man of many talents, if you will. But the question I have for you is, um, if you could only do one of those three, which one would you go with?

4:14 - Jonathan Wolk
Well, you know, for me, it's not one of those three. For me, it's really they're all one. So in order to do a project, and in this vein, sort of specifically residential, although it works for commercial as well, as I see it, And it's really the way it makes sense to be done. So if you're looking, let's just say you're somebody looking and they say, hey, I want to build a home in North Carolina. It makes sense for us to be there when you're looking for land. Because you're like, OK, I have an idea of what I want to do. And so when you're going to look for land, at some options and evaluate those options as opposed to just going and buying land and or a site you know and so what are the what are you know maybe you want to do a really modern home and you wind up buying a house in a subdivision with HOA rules and you have to have a 4 and 12 roof pitch with shingles of a certain make and double hung windows what you want to do isn't going to work there and so so it really starts the design process starts in looking for the land, right, to what your scope is. And then for us to start the design, we've got to have the land so we know what we're working with, what the parameters are. Is it north-facing, south-facing, you know, whatever the case may be. And then really to do the construction right, you really want to know what those parameters and principles are and why you chose that location. Want to build, what's important, what are your needs, what are your wants? And so to me, it's really the whole point of it being integrated is all of it working together. And so it's hard to separate it out, although we do occasionally for clients. We'll sometimes offer just one or a couple of scenarios. But really, in my belief, to really Execute it the best. It's really that full integration and it's to me it goes back to You know whether you're an Apple person or a PC person if you like the Apple It's because it's got the software and the hardware Integrated and that's essentially what we're talking about if you go and you buy a car You know, you're not buying a Toyota that's designed by Ford or you're not buying a Ford that that they had, you know, Nissan design for them and then put out to the lowest bidder and the lowest bidder wound up being Ford, so now Ford's building this Nissan. Nobody, no other industry really does it that way, right? So, the fact that people say, oh, I'm gonna buy this property, then I'm gonna hire this designer, and then I'm gonna put it out to bid, and I'm gonna take the person, the low bid, so the person that missed the most Information and probably got it wrong. That's then who I'm gonna hire to build this thing. So Those three things worked together and none of those three groups of people have any kind of contract That ties them together all those contracts are directly to the owner And so the owner winds up having to manage and run a process that they don't know anything about that's not where they made their money their you know Do what something else? So it's an interesting methodology that we've concocted in this country as a way to execute building projects that I don't necessarily agree with. So I don't see it as three things. We have to be three separate entities because the way the laws work and licensing works. But to me, it's really it's one in the same.

8:24 - Andy
Do you see that? Being something that is ever going to change? Or is this just how it's how it is with the three?

8:33 - Jonathan Wolk
I think there would have to be a lot of fundamental changes to have that change. Right. You know, you're talking about licensing, you're talking about health, safety, welfare, people, you're, yeah, you're, yeah, I don't see that ever changing. And I think what we've done is we've and there's Here's a few other firms like ours in North Carolina and elsewhere that you're set up so that we're dotting our I's and crossing our T's legally and making sure that we're doing things right, but also at the same time delivering to our clients a really one source responsibility uh for them to so they get the best the best that they can get.

9:28 - Andy
Yeah which you know you and I aren't necessarily in control of those uh moving wheels but you know it's it's a podcast so we're having a conversation but uh no I appreciate you playing along with those uh questions and um so regarding um Regarding that, I mean, you didn't start out in all three though, right? You probably started out in architecture, I imagine.

9:58 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah, I started in architecture. So as a kid, you know, going back to third grade, it's what I wanted to be, was an architect. But, you know, I think, and I think this is true for a lot of the general public, people don't really know what an architect does, or they think they know what an architect does. They think they know what a builder does. And I think a lot of people already naturally assume they're kind of an integrated process. But yeah, I like the idea of design. I like the idea of designing buildings. But as I was always building stuff, whether it whether it was a bike, whether it was with Lego, Lincoln Logs, girders and panel, whatever, I was always building stuff and really formulated the idea when I went up to Alaska and built my sister's cabin that I had designed, super simple building, but that's really where it was like, this is the way to do it, is you design it and then you build it, and then that way you're also learning from your design as you build and, and, and what did you, what did you do? What can you do better? You know, those kinds of things. So, um, it really was architecture first then construction. But as I was involved in architecture and construction and doing design build, people would bring to you this property and it was like, Oh, you've already bought the property without even looking at You know, let's just say you buy this property that's on a slope and you want a single level house. Well, that's going to be an expensive property to build because now you've got to level out the slope, right? Or, you know, do something there. So I found, I quickly realized, yeah, we really need to be there, whether it's buying a house that you want to renovate, do an addition to, can you do the addition? And renovation that you want to. Can you do what you want to do cost-effectively? Can you do it in that neighborhood? Are there HOA restrictions that don't allow you to do what you want to do? So that's really where we added the real estate component to it because it really starts when you have the idea that you want to buy something, build something, modify something, That's where you need your architect and contractor there with you so that you've got your, you're sort of thinking through this whole, this whole situation and three dimensions. And we help a lot of other realtors out and I'm happy to do that because I want them to be successful as well. Get the client what they want. I don't want the client winding up buying something that doesn't work for them. And we're happy to be there alongside them and help find that solution. And sometimes it might be that the solution is, if this is what you want to do, this isn't the right property for you.

13:19 - Andy
Yeah. Okay. I mean, sometimes you have to deal with what you have, right?

13:24 - Jonathan Wolk
Or you've got to change your wants and needs, right? You've got to change your scope. Oh, you want a three-story house? Well, this neighborhood doesn't allow three stories. The foundation won't accommodate three stories or you know, whatever the case may be, right?

13:38 - Andy
Right, right, which Now you're talking my world a little bit right the structural so and I was thinking about that You know analogy, which I I love mac myself apple. I mean, um, I use I use a macbook but um So I I understand the the analogy of You know, they they make their own parts. They make the hardware and the software. It goes together, right, which is a different mentality. Now, they've evolved over time where they, you know, they use Intel chips, for example. And so, but the thing that I was going to ask is how far do you take that? I mean, as far as, I mean, it would be great to have even more Right. Like you have more people on the team that were integrated and understood how to work together. I mean, how do you, how do you deal with that?

14:36 - Jonathan Wolk
Now you're, now you're talking like my wife who wants to have everybody and, and, but, um, for the size projects and the type of projects we do, that doesn't make sense for us. Um, um, I think, you know, what, The way we've sort of mitigated that is that we have our core team that you know, we've worked with for years and and They not only know how we work, but they also know how each other works So my framers done work with my plumbing mechanical electrical subs and knows what to expect and anticipate, you know from those guys and they we've worked through things time and time again and Um, so that's where the team, even though we're not all in the same company, but we're all part of the same team, uh, is, has been helpful. And that's kind of what we use to kind of mitigate that kind of aspect of it. Um, and that's why it's great to integrate, uh, introduce new members to the team from time to time. It's always good to see how things are done differently. But it's also like, you know, hey, what we're used to is, you know, this and, and do you, you know, do you, we need to make sure you guys do that as well and stuff like that. So, um, and sometimes you learn things that are better and sometimes you're like, ah, I like the way my guy does it better or something. So, um, but yeah, I think in this world currently to try, like for me to have a, Mechanical crew it's so specialized and and Requires so much like it wouldn't make sense for us to provide Mechanical contracting as part of our in-house services Right and I guess so as you're as you're advising your client You know, how do you change from one hat to another?

16:47 - Andy
You know, I'm wearing the quote architect hat, contractor hat, real estate hat. How do you switch over?

16:53 - Jonathan Wolk
So, you know, I don't. As I'm talking to you now, I'm talking to you as an architect, a realtor and a contractor. When I step into something, you know, I'm kind of looking at it from all three perspectives. Now, there's times where I've got to sort of say, hey, I've got to put the architect hat on. And address this is a design problem, right? So I've got to address the design problem aspect of it. Or now that I've addressed that design problem, now we've got to look at, OK, what's the cost or what are the logistics, the construction issues relative to that design solution so there are times you've got to kind of go back and forth but but really for me and that's really the benefit is I've kind of always coming at it from that perspective of understanding so like we're doing a house we were looking at a house for a client yesterday going into a neighborhood that you know they want to do this cool house it's a great piece of property but the house they want to do is good way more than the prop than the neighborhood right and it's gonna be the nicest house in the neighborhood and so I'm not representing them as their real estate agent but I said to him I said hey you know just be aware have you guys thought about the fact that you know what we're talking about here is building you the nicest house in the neighborhood that you know it's gonna take you years for ROI and something and they're like yeah yeah we were clear on that we know and And I was like, okay, cause that that's important to make sure you're aware and consider that if you're going to build a, you know, six, $700,000 house in a $300,000 neighborhood, you know, you're not, you're not, you're not going to, you know, you're not going to get a comp that says, Hey, your house is worth what you spent on it, you know? So, um, so it's sort of those kinds of things and, and, and thinking And then even in the design, like, do you, you know, do you want, um, you know, you want like they're really, you know, we want a lot of glass, we want a modern look and, and it's okay. Yeah. That's, that's cool. There, there are some cost savings in sort of that modern look. Cause you're not doing a bunch, spending money on a bunch of trim and stuff, but now the, the structural, you know, we be to get those big open spans, you know, we might need some bigger beams or something like that. Cause we're not going to have a bunch of load bearing. Walls that might add to the construction costs in terms of the building structure as opposed to trims and finishes and stuff so you're kind of always thinking and that's kind of why our diagram is is the circle or some people call it the clock because it's sort of like as you're as you're working through these different steps you are always kind of going back and forth from, you know, maybe the real estate to the architecture, to the construction, to the architecture, you know, so they all sort of work integratedly.

20:11 - Andy
So is that where the 360 comes in? That's it. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. 360 degree view of the project.

20:20 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah.

20:21 - Andy
I get it. I get it.

20:23 - Jonathan Wolk
So when you're meeting with that customer at the very beginning or client, What what tips you off what questions are being asked from the client that tells you this is gonna be a great project Well, they all have the potential to be great projects that's why I love it about it especially at that stage it's really It's to me it's really about what is it what was it's kind of become clear What's your why but it's sort of like why are you doing this right? Like what what are your goals? What are your dreams? You know, is this a forever home? Is this a home to raise your kids in? Is this your your downsizing and and the kids have moved out but you want to have a place where the grandkids are coming to is it is it a vacation home and and this is where you want to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas is it you know, but what is it, not just the scope in terms of four bedrooms, two and a half baths, two car garage, not scope like that, but what is it that's driving, what's the aspirational goal of this house? What's it gonna do, what do you want it to do for you that makes your life and your better and your family stronger? We did, I had this, this great project for this great church. Um, and we met with the church, so many funny stories about where these guys are great. Um, but, um, they, the, we, we started the project kind of at the tail end of COVID and, and during COVID they were, they were meeting in the parking lot, right? Cause they had to meet outside. And so I was asking him, I was like, okay, well, what is, what is church, you know, what does this mean to you? What is, what's important? And they're like, well, you know, we were getting together, we get together and we get together and we, after service, we always have, you know, a meal and we always eat together. And it's a smaller church, like maybe less than a hundred families. And I said, well, when you were doing COVID, you know, what was, what was wrong with sort of meeting in the, And they said, well, you know, when it was hot, it got hot, you know, and I said, okay, well, you know, if it's hot, you know, put up a tent, you know, that way it protects you from the rain. And so what I was driving at with them was it's really, it's not so much about the building. The building serves you to bring everybody together because you guys were getting together in a parking lot and having a great time and doing absolutely every all the same functions that you're doing that you want to do in this building and so we really got into that the what was the most important thing about the building was that it was it was it was perceived as part of the community and where people can come together and it wasn't about a big this or a big that or anything and it was really about coming together and that I thought was I think okay So that's why we want to we want to graduate from the parking lot and a tent to having a building and now that now let's start working from that, you know, and so So a lot of times it's it's we can get through the scope and parameters and looking through plans and all you know And I like this style or that style. It's it's it's why why are we doing this because it's not a You know everybody's watched the movies, you know, you know It's not It's not an easy process, you know, it's trying it's it's we dig into a lot of your personal life both financially We had a client that you know, they want this big two-headed shower and and it's like okay you want a two-headed shower because And he's like, well, we both like to shower at the same time. And I'm like, OK, because you like having fun in the shower? You're a couple. You want to have fun in the shower? Or is it just logistics, like you both have to shower at the same time, and you go to work at the same time? And we were laughing. He's like, no, no, we like to have fun in the shower. I'm like, OK, well, there's some things we want to do to facilitate having fun in the shower, which is great. You should be having fun in the shower but but we get personal with people right I mean we're talking about finances we're talking about lifestyle we're talking about things you like things you don't like you know so that's to me the fun and exciting part those are the questions I can go through the four bedroom two and a half baths situation you know pretty quickly let's let's dive into what what's gonna this unique and why you want this.

25:37 - Andy
Yeah, I think we might have a title for the podcast episode, Jonathan.

25:40 - Jonathan Wolk
There you go.

25:41 - Andy
Have fun in the shower.

25:42 - Jonathan Wolk
That's right. That's right.

25:47 - Andy
That's awesome. So yeah, where do we go from that one?

25:56 - Jonathan Wolk
I got so many more.

25:58 - Andy
Yeah, so you mentioned that the church had some funny stories. Maybe you could share one there, too.

26:07 - Jonathan Wolk
This is so, it's a bit of a long story, but I'll do it as short as I can. But this is great. So when I was in college, I used to walk by, my roommate and I used to walk by going to school. Every morning there was a bumper sticker that said, my boss is a Jewish carpenter. I had no idea what that meant. That's in reference to Jesus, if I'm Who didn't know that took me a while to figure that out? Well, I'm Jewish I'm considering myself a carpenter because I build things and so we used to joke we were like, well, you're a Jewish carpenter, you know, you're a Jewish car Anyway, but we literally would walk by it to architecture studio every day. So I'm sitting down With the pastor and this pastor is great. He rolls up on his motorcycle cycle we're meeting for coffee and he says the reason why I'm talking to you is because I really wanted I didn't want to hire the typical church builder he goes there all these church builders out there and they just do the same thing and we want somebody that's gonna really work with us understand us and be very unique and I said well I said you know yeah I'm as far as you can get from these big, you know, multimillion dollar church building companies that build these $20 million churches. I said, and in fact, I've, I've worked on a couple of churches, but I've never designed and built a church before. Um, and I said, so I'm, I'm about as far away from, from those guys as you can get. And he said, well, that's great. He goes, we really, it's really tough. It's more about hands on. And I said, okay. And I said, well, I got one, I said, I got one more for you that I think will just put me over the top. And he said, what's that? And I said, well, if you want your church built by a Jewish carpenter, here I am. And I looked at him and I'm like, if he laughs, I'm in, if he doesn't laugh, I'm out. And he looks at me for a second and then he got it and he just started laughing. And he's like, we're going to get along great. And I said, then we're good. And I said, cause if that for you guys then good so so yeah so we and and we wound up doing design for a really cool the the idea is that it's kind of this modern take on sort of the old country rural you know little white church a modern you know take on that and it's really coming out quite beautiful so they They, you know, by starting with community and what's important to them, we were able to come away with this kind of very nice, simple building that works for them. And, you know, that's the exciting part, getting into that stuff. And those stories become important because that's understanding where they're coming from, that's rapport, it's trust, all those sort of things.

29:21 - Andy
Yeah, I mean, this is a place where, I mean, like a church is where you worship, it's where you congregate. I mean, it's personal, right? It's not, it's not just walls. And like your house, that's where you, well, that's where you live, but also take a shower, right?

29:41 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah, yeah.

29:42 - Andy
So, so that's really cool. I never really thought about it like that. And that's the type of stuff we're hoping to learn from So thank you for sharing that. So, yeah, I wanted to go into, yeah, next question, sorry. Yeah, I guess really, what kind of cool jobs are you working on right now? Anything or any exciting projects that you have going on?

30:13 - Jonathan Wolk
We're doing, so we're doing that church. We're doing another, uh, sort of church edition, um, kind of, um, youth activity center, if you will. That's, that's also pretty cool. Um, we're doing, um, forever home for a couple. We're doing some restaurants. Um, so a little bit all over the place. Um, You know, which is kind of what I like, you know, kind of suits my ADD, you know, I like to have my fingers in a lot of different pots and things going on. We've got, we're finishing up a really nice contemporary home that was a really cool process and came out beautifully. And a couple, you know, a couple little adjustments renovations here and there. So yeah, we've got a handful of things, you know, cooking.

31:13 - Andy
So you like to work on, you like to have your variety in your, in your life.

31:18 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah. Yeah. That's probably been both a blessing and a curse for me. Um, I'm, you know, I, I look at some of these firms that, you know, do one thing and, and do it really, really well. And stylistically, you know, you can drive around town, And you're like, oh that's who did that. I know who did that one I know who did that one and and I think one of the great things about when you look at our website is our projects look very different because I believe our projects rather than Conveying our style that I believe they all convey our quality but they really convey the style of the owner and The client and that's what makes me happy is that it's not me saying hey do your project this way it's it's us helping them realize their dream and bringing their bringing that to to life and fruition and so I love that the diversity of of our projects that our website shows because I think it and and just our portfolio shows but I think it shows best on our website and our socials and stuff when you see you know we might be talking about a barn condominium or or a big warehouse project and and then next we might be talking about a basement renovation and addition or you know a ADU or a small garage or something like that and To an office building to a church, you know, so I like that. I like the diversity and I like the scale and and it's really about I've always said I like working on interesting projects with interesting people. And, um, you know, if it's a $5,800,000 garage, that's could be something cool. Then let's do it, you know? And if it's a, if it's a, a $3 million home, let's do it, you know, and everything in between. Okay.

33:23 - Andy
Awesome. Yeah. I mean, it, it sounds like having a variety, has a benefit to it. Is your organization, do you have a big team, a small or nimble team?

33:37 - Jonathan Wolk
We've got a medium team. We've got a core group that we've worked with for years. And so kind of internally, it's a small team. But then as you look at our consultants and our subcontractors and our trades and our These are guys that we've worked with for years. And so I think that's what makes it a strong team is that we know how each other works and works together. We know kind of the good and the bad. It's a relationship. You know, the good and the bad of each other. And I like, you know, they like us, we like them, and we like working together.

34:22 - Andy
Yeah, well, that sounds like a good relationship.

34:25 - Jonathan Wolk
right there good um what's working well for you right now generally um I would say really the kind of going back to that core team the the leanness of the team you know we don't we use the same consultants over and over we use the same subcontractors over and over we we know we get their input um if we're doing design we get get input from the subs as we're looking at stuff or exploring stuff. And so I think that type of integration, that type of information sharing, reaching out. They reach out to us on stuff. We reach out to them. I think that's one. It's hard to find these days. But I think that's also that we've got, that's a little bit of a testament to what we're doing. And I think people like working in that way. And people like to share their knowledge. And I love, I say to my clients, they're asking me about something on the mechanical system, let's say. And well, why is it that way? And I don't, you know, I don't know. But let me call my, my HVAC contractor and ask him and get the information for you. And he can explain it because he knows the different systems. He knows why it's changed from what it was five years ago to today or why this is better than that. And technology wise and dah, dah, dah. Um, I can't stay on top of every one of those things. And that's why I like them because I can reach out to them and they'll explain it. They'll not just explain it to me, but then they'll explain it to our client and to make sure they're comfortable with it and they understand it and they they like that answer or solution and so having a core team like that that you can reach out to is is key or even in the design phase hey what's the best way to to do this you know say mechanically or something like that are we looking at two units or three units should we do this with many split that kind of stuff. So that's that's great to not. And then that way, my consultants, my PM&E engineers, they're not designing in a vacuum either. Right. I've got the trades also looking at it and getting their input so that so that they're also getting the, you know, the input on the on maybe the best way to do something.

37:11 - Andy
Yeah, it sounds like having having that team is really helped you succeed and grow and assembling that team probably wasn't something an overnight experience either.

37:22 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah, it's a lot. It takes time. It takes time. You're building relationships. We've built several projects together and they've built several projects together so they understand what they're looking for, what's next, things like that.

37:40 - Andy
Yeah. Is there any, you know, technology is moving so fast right now. We know that to be true, both on the construction, on the architecture, the design, but I mean, even maybe the real estate, which there's probably technologies there. What are some technologies that are helping you get ahead right now?

38:02 - Jonathan Wolk
You know, we've tried a lot of different things. In the last year or so, we've actually kind of taken a step back. More to sort of baseline kind of stuff, if you will, you know, construction, especially the kind of construction and scale of construction we do is still very hands on, right? You're still hammering nails. You're still laying pipe. You're still digging ditches. You're, you know, putting on roof or roof shingles by hand. You know, it's still very hands on. It's small companies. Um, You know, and so we were looking at a lot of different communication tools, Slack and Jobber and some of those different, you know, project management softwares and things like that. And really, we've kind of stepped back from that because what happens is, for us, we can spend all the time and our internal team get all up to speed on it. Know how to use it and everything but but you know my plumber might not be using it and then all of a sudden you know if the plumbers not using it then the whole thing kind of falls apart right because everybody else is relying on the data and or you know or another trade guys not using it or because they use something else so they use some other platform so to me it's always like I'm a huge Star Wars fan and I love you know, R2D2, this old kind of antiquated robot goes into the brand new Death Star and can hook right into the terminal, right?

39:47 - Andy
Yeah.

39:49 - Jonathan Wolk
You know, that's the equivalent of me walking into an office with a floppy disk and saying to somebody, and half the people watching this probably don't even know what a floppy disk is, but walking into an office with a floppy disk and asking somebody, hey, can I Can I, you know, download these files off this floppy disk? You know, people look at me like I've got three heads. So, um, that, so to the point of like, it's changing so fast, like, okay, so we use Slack, but then the plumber uses another program and the mechanical uses another, how do we all get on the same, how do we all get on the same, uh, system or how are we all on unique systems? That can interface interchangeably like R2-D2 on the Death Star. And so that's where we've fallen back to sort of like old technology, you know, Excel spreadsheets and phone calls and voicemail and email because that at least is consistent. And it's worked well for us and we're, you know, We're a small company that works with a bunch of small companies, and that seems to bode well for everybody, and they can communicate. And everybody can still pick up a phone, whether they do or not. That's always another issue. But people can still pick up the phone and just talk through it.

41:15 - Andy
So we- That's a fair point. I mean, we have different phones, but yet somehow we're able to on the phone, right? I mean, you might have an iPhone and I might have an Android, but, you know, they work. So, you know, perhaps that's the next step is to get some of this communication where, you know, if you use Teams or Slack, it doesn't really matter. Maybe they could start talking together, right?

41:43 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I send a lien waiver to one of my subcontractors via DocuSign and I had to walk them through DocuSign and I thought DocuSign was kind of one of those old technology like, and it's basically self-explanatory. But he was like, he was like, what's this doc? What did you send me? And I'm like, dude, it's a DocuSign. Did you just sign, you know, he's like, well, I'll just come by the office and sign. I'm like, dude, you don't have to come by the office. Just, just, just click on the button and like sign it, like Read it, make sure you're good with it and sign it. And you're done like, well, where do I date it? You don't have to It dates it like when you sign it it like and so, you know, and and he's a great guy He does good work and all that but like that's the whole point is like Technologically, that's not his thing right? He that he doesn't care. He doesn't want to go that route So here I'm explaining doggie signing somebody. How am I gonna get him to use a project management software? Yeah You know our scheduling software that says hey today's the day you're supposed to show up and install and dah, dah, dah. So that's, I think that's the, you know, the struggle is, is, is a unified platform.

43:02 - Andy
Well, and actually it ties back to your, the original thesis of, of what you do, because the whole, the whole thing is like, let's be more integrated, right? As a company, you know, design, build real estate, But there is some fractional aspects of the industry, even so, right? And imagine, which I'm sure you can imagine, what it's like to not be a design build real estate situation. It's even more fractional. It's even more.

43:36 - Jonathan Wolk
And that's why it just, you know, especially for these types of projects, it just doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't make sense because like, okay, I buy the land or buy the house from this person without any understanding of the next step. Then I hire this architect or, or designer and they come in and they do this thing. Um, but I don't know that it's my budget. And then I, and then I take it to these three builders and they each give me a price, but I really don't know that I'm comparing apples to apples. But the low price is the low price. So I'm going to take that one. And then through the construction process, I find out that, oh, well, they didn't include this or they didn't include that. Well, now that's now I understand why they were the low price. So it's like, who's happy with that kind of system? And then it's like, oh, well, your designer didn't put that on there. Or, oh, well, when you bought the house, we didn't know that it had blah, blah, you know, lead pipes, you know, and so I got to call my real estate and be like, well, we didn't know, you know, so like, yeah, why? Who's got time for that? Right. And then in the meanwhile, if you're building, buying and building, you know, a half a million, a million dollar house, you probably have something else that's making you your money, not having to manage a design and construction process. Right. So, like, that's the last thing you want to be doing is is losing time at work or whatever you do to make money to help pay for this thing. Go spend the time doing that. I had a I had a meeting other day and and we were talking some some ballpark stuff with the client and and they were like we want to well I want to you know I don't want to pay your markup on this and I don't want to pay your markup on that so I'll just handle that and I was like okay I said I said but let me give you an alternative perspective you're gonna it's not just saying oh hey this guy show up and paint he's gonna have to go and come back several times. Um, we're going to have to coordinate with them. We're going to have to do this. We're going to have to do that. Um, then there's going to be a problem or whatever. And then he's going to have to come back or he's going to have to clean up. And so you want to manage all that process because I'm not calling the painter cause he works for you. You don't work for me. So every time I'm calling you to tell you that you've got to get him and then when he doesn't show up, I call you and say, Oh, well he didn't show up and da da da. And I said, why don't this person sells for a living? And I said, for the few thousand dollars that you're going to save on my markup for his work, you go and do what you do and sell, and you'll make 10 times more money in the time rather than trying to coordinate your painter and, and pay for my markup.

46:29 - Andy
Yeah. So what was the result?

46:31 - Jonathan Wolk
They were like, Oh, That's an interesting point. And I'm like, yeah, like I get it. I get it. But do what you do. Make money at what you do because you're obviously successful and good at what you do because you're able to hire me to do this project. Focus on doing that and I will do the best that I can to build you what you want.

46:53 - Andy
Yeah. OK. And did he end up doing that?

46:57 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're in the beginning process Yeah, that's the direction we're going.

47:02 - Andy
Okay. Well, sounds like a good, good analogy. You gave him a good reasoning. So, uh, yeah, at the risk of sounding a little cliche, Jonathan, because our, our, one of our big things is, um, you know, enhanced podcasts. We do want to know what your why is. Right. So, um, I say a little bit tongue in cheek, but, um, yeah. So what is, what, what is it that like, what, what causes you to want to do this? For a living and to do the triad that you do and to help people out. What are you trying to accomplish?

47:36 - Jonathan Wolk
I do it, I mean really I do it for my wife and daughter to provide for them the best life that I can for them. That's first and foremost. And I really like Customer service aspect of it if you will and and making our clients happy and helping them Fulfill their dreams right like these these houses that we build is fulfilling a dream for them It's there's something special there, right? It's it's a home. It's it's not we're not We're not out there doing spec houses and things like, you know things like that we're building custom homes for people to live in and and whether it's their forever home or or whatever it's it's you know maybe it's a home where they're gonna raise their family and make memories and and I really love that aspect of it I mean it there's a there's also like a real I've done it for myself and there's a real envy of being able to do that for people. And like, man, now that we're done, like you get to live in your dream home. Like how awesome is that? Um, and that's why, you know, when you're at finish a job, it's a little bit sad, but it's also like, as they're making these decisions and, and time always becomes an issue or a constraint. It's like, don't, Don't let this, this house that you're going to be in for 10, 15, 20 maybe longer. What's so, who cares about a week or two weeks? I know right now that a week is, seems huge, right? Seems so huge. Um, because for whatever reason, but in years, you're not even going to remember that week. You might remember the pain. You might be, Oh my God, I remember, Oh God, we were waiting. This and we needed that but like oh my god, you're gonna have been enjoying your house You're gonna have had so many Christmases here Hanukkah's or you know, whatever birthdays Thanksgivings like think of that like that's that's the awesome That that's the awesomeness of it right and and that's That's why I love doing this stuff. And and that's why when we tend to talk to people, you know, we've had flippers call us right and they're like oh I love your integrated approach and can you help me and you can help me find the property you can design it and then you can renovate it you know and and then I can sell it for this profit and it's like yeah that's great in theory but I'm not cutting corners like when we uncover these moldy studs we're not just gonna cover them up with drywall like we're gonna have to figure out what to do to clean that mold out. We're going to have to, you know, uh, fix this thing. So it's right. So my numbers, I'm not going to build this thing the cheapest way possible. I'm going to build it right now. We'll work with you to, to make sure that we can, that we can deliver something that's cost conscious, but at the same token, we're not sweeping things under the rug and covering things up and putting lipstick on a a pig, we're not doing that. And so that's why we tend to work better for owners as opposed to investors, even though we're also investors. We do flip houses, we build things like that, but we do it knowing that this is going to be somebody's home.

51:35 - Andy
Yeah.

51:36 - Andy
I mean, I think if you have that in mind, it definitely adds a lot of purpose Obviously, I think that makes a better product in the end.

51:45 - Andy
I'm glad that you're adding that why to your work.

51:51 - Andy
Well, Jonathan, we've taken up a good bit of your time today, and I appreciate you taking time to just explain what you do.

51:58 - Andy
It sounds like a really interesting business model, and I've learned a lot from you.

52:04 - Andy
Was there anything else you wanted to share about anything today?

52:08 - Jonathan Wolk
Yeah, just check us out.

52:09 - Jonathan Wolk
Check us out.

52:11 - Jonathan Wolk
We're at WOLK360.com and you can find us on all the socials, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube.

52:20 - Jonathan Wolk
Got some great entertaining videos on YouTube.

52:24 - Jonathan Wolk
But yeah, check us out and if we can help you, we'd love to help you out.

52:28 - Jonathan Wolk
If anything we've said today resonates with you, let's talk.

52:31 - Andy
For sure.

52:32 - Andy
And are you, do you do work just in your local area?

52:37 - Andy
Is it more spread out?

52:38 - Jonathan Wolk
We're pretty much, North Carolina We are looking at some other projects We have in the past.

52:47 - Jonathan Wolk
I've worked kind of all over the country and some some international projects as well Currently we're pretty much, North Carolina, although we are exploring some projects elsewhere So yeah, you know, like I said if for the right people for the right project We'll you know, we'll consider just about anything here.

53:08 - Jonathan Wolk
You know, it's like it meets our parameters.

53:10 - Jonathan Wolk
We meet your parameters It's good opportunity.

53:13 - Jonathan Wolk
Let's talk.

53:15 - Andy
Okay.

53:15 - Andy
Awesome.

53:16 - Andy
Well, thanks Jonathan.

53:17 - Andy
It was a pleasure to have you on today.

53:18 - Andy
Take care.

53:19 - Jonathan Wolk
Likewise.

53:19 - Madeline
Thank you so much Hey everybody.

53:22 - Madeline
Thanks for listening to today's episode of enhanced and please leave a like subscribe or follow and we'll see you next time