0:01 - Madeline
All right, so on today's episode, we had Anthony Fasano, and he's the owner of the Engineering Management Institute, which really focuses a lot on project management and leadership training. And something that we talked about, or y'all talked about that I found interesting, was like, if you don't have a good project manager, and it's kind of like a, he gave an analogy, like it's a pinwheel, and then the linchpin everything is you know non-functional because you don't have the thing holding it together working so you you kind of mentioned that that kind of hit you you know right between the eyes sort of yeah yeah the way he explained it and described it it showed the importance of project management and you know some people downplay the value of project management, and that it's just not that significant, but he gave a few analogies.

1:02 - Andy
One was the linchpin, which is like a wagon wheel. You have to have a linchpin, so not to totally take away from his analogy, but he just showed the value of the project management, and this one hit me between the eyes a bit in that regard, It's an area that we could use some improvement here at 2096. But, you know, we can always use improvement. And this is what we're talking about today is how to improve yourself, how to get ahead, how to be a better leader, how to be a better project manager. And that's really what we talk about with Anthony. And that's one of the things that he spent so much of his career training people and really providing resources to people.

1:51 - Madeline
For sure.

1:53 - Andy
Yeah, pretty much. I mean, this is a, well, I just wanted to make me point out the obvious. This is our preview that is our first remote preview. So we experimenting with that. So that's a little bit of a fun thing. So yeah, that's stating that, I guess, but we'll go ahead and get started. My name is Andy Richardson. I'm a professional engineer and this is our producer, Madeline, and this is the enhanced AEC podcast where we interview professionals in the AEC industry and find out what they're doing and why they're doing it. Let's jump to the intro.

2:32 - Madeline
Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why.

2:39 - Andy
Hey, welcome to the Enhance podcast. Podcast, Anthony.

2:43 - Anthony Fasano
Hey, I'm happy to be here, Andy. Thanks for having me.

2:46 - Andy
Hey, do you like sequels to movies? I do. What's your favorite? Do you have one?

2:55 - Anthony Fasano
I thought Karate Kid 2 was pretty good.

2:58 - Andy
I mean, you can't go wrong with Karate Kid, like that's a great one. And speaking of sequels, so we have, you know, the Karate Kid 2, and then you also had the like the 2000s version. So are you more of a 2000s version with Jaden Smith or?

3:16 - Anthony Fasano
I like the old school one.

3:18 - Andy
The original, yeah. Okay, fair enough. Well the reason I asked you that, of course you know probably is this is our second time doing this, but necessarily the audience doesn't know that, but I do have a few questions that some of which probably sound a little bit similar than before, but I thought they were great questions and so we'll probably to go down that road again. So because I thought we had a great conversation before and I'm pretty excited about the conversation we're going to have today. So really I'll start it out with, you know, I was reading a little bit about your bio and found out that you coach some football, which, you know, I've played some football, believe it or not, in my day. But did you ever give any locker room speeches that you wanted to share about?

4:11 - Anthony Fasano
I didn't give a locker room speech because I wasn't a head coach, but I did try to talk to the players about just developing really good habits in your life, right? Not just in football. I mean, I think certainly in sports, right, if you want to get better, you have to practice every day and develop really good habits. Even in life, right? Like, you have to brush your teeth every day, or you're gonna be in trouble, right? Like, you have to show up to work every day, show up to school every day. And so I tried to impart that message on the athletes.

4:48 - Andy
Yeah, so that's good. Is there any correlation between athletics and the engineering world, specifically project management?

4:58 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of correlations between them, right? Like, in sports, the team has to work together to achieve a goal. In project management, right, the team has to work together to deliver a project, right, on time and on schedule. And as a project manager, in a way, you're almost a coach, right? Because you're dealing with stakeholders internally, stakeholders externally, you've got to keep everybody in the same page and kind of moving in the same direction. And so I think there are a lot of good parallels between sports and between engineering and project management. And, you know, one of them being that, you know, you are that facilitator, right? You are the one who's trying to keep everybody motivated moving forward.

5:46 - Andy
I mean, I think there's so many parallels with sports and work in general, but not to mention project management. So I definitely think, and we often find ourselves using so many different analogies from sports into our work lives. So Anthony, and one thing is this is the AEC podcast. You teach project managers in the AEC world, not just engineering. You have an engineering background yourself, but I just want to share that. We may get down into the pigeonhole because we're both engineers by trade, But you're in the AEC teaching and training world, and this is an AEC podcast. So we'll have architects, contractors, as well as engineers listening in, and maybe some laypeople, too, hopefully. But I just wanted to lay that bit of groundwork briefly. And I want to go into some of your early success that you had, which helped you learn about leadership. You know, one thing I was learning about you is it seems like you started out as an engineer and you moved quickly into a leadership position. What was it that helped you get that early success in your career?

7:06 - Anthony Fasano
Well, for me, I worked for a consulting engineering company and I did want to become a principal or a partner in the company. And so I just took a look at the different partners and principals And what I noticed was they didn't just have technical skills that were good. They had communication skills, project management skills, leadership skills. And so I worked on developing those skills. I Read books, I watched videos, I did whatever I could. And that helped my career kind of take off and get to that next step. And so I think like in any career, recognizing the skills that are going to help to be successful, and then developing those skills is something that everybody should be focused on. And quite frankly, in today's world, you have a lot of resources available, right? Podcasts, YouTube, courses, books, where you can do that on your own, even if your company doesn't offer you those types of development efforts.

8:05 - Andy
I mean, that's so true. And was there anybody that you've, in particular, that gave you some mentorship? Or did you just learn by example mostly?

8:17 - Anthony Fasano
I mean, I had some good mentors along the way, but I did just try to learn by example. Like, for example, one of the things I did was when I was developing as a civil engineer, I had wanted to go to planning board meetings just to kind of observe, right? And like, see what was going on there, because I knew that was the next step for me. But my boss told me, hey, we don't have any budget to bring you, right? We can't build a client. So I was like, you know what, I'll just go out my own time. So I think trying to make an effort to really be a sponge and soak up as much as you can, however you can as an engineer is important because that's going to help you when it's your time to have the skills you need or the experience or have seen things that can help you to grow.

8:59 - Andy
Yeah, definitely.

9:01 - Andy
Asking good questions. And I mean, one thing as somebody who now I have some experience, I'm willing to share, I like sharing. I would say most people do like mentoring and teaching, so what skill does it take to get that knowledge? Really, I think a lot of people want to be a mentor, as you get experience, you want to share that experience, but what is it that takes, what is it from a a mentee, if you will, that you need to do in order to get that experience? Like you were watching, you were learning, talking to maybe a younger person. What would you tell them to do to gain that experience, to gain that knowledge?

9:55 - Anthony Fasano
I mean, I think at the end of the day, it's just working on projects, you know, getting involved in the different aspects of projects, communicating with people internally within your company in different departments, externally, clients, sub consultants. I think you just need to get experience. You know, it sounds simple, but it just takes time, right? And the more experience you get, the different types of projects you work on, challenging yourself to do different things, like make a client presentation, right? Do something you're uncomfortable with. I think that allows you to build up the experience that you need to be able and mentor and guide others.

10:36 - Andy
Yeah, definitely. And trying new things. I mean, doing things out of your comfort zone. Because you might find it could be thrilling. I mean, for example, this podcast. For me, I mean, and you know, I'm not exactly, you know, wet behind the ears, but I mean, this is new for me. You know, doing this for about a year now and it was uncomfortable for me. But on the other hand, I enjoy doing it and it's unlocked a new skill, a new aspect. So I think that's a great point is getting out of that comfort zone. Sometimes it's just something you're not good at, right? That's why you're not comfortable with it. But it might unlock something that you really are good at. So how do you determine which one's which?

11:28 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, that's exactly right. I think part of experience, right? Figuring out what you do really well, what you can help others do well. Again, it's just an experience thing. But I think that the nice thing about mentoring and guiding others is it also helps you to develop your leadership skills more, right? Because as you're mentoring someone or guiding them or teaching them something, you're leading, right? You're putting yourself out there. You're helping someone. And that's really what a leader does. So I always tell people mentoring is good for the person receiving the mentoring and the people mentoring because you're developing your own leadership skills as well.

12:11 - Andy
Yeah, I mean, that's so true. That's a great point. So we said that you had some early success and a lot of people on here are probably wanting to be successful. That's the reason they reach out to the EMI, the Engineering Management Institute, and get training. But what is success?

12:35 - Anthony Fasano
That's a question that we could spend a couple of years answering, but I think it's a good question in that I tell everyone in our programs, leadership, project management, is that they need to create a success definition for themselves, right? And what does that mean to them? Is it for them in their career right now achieving their professional engineering license? Is it becoming an official project manager or managing a certain size project, right? Is it trying to get to a certain level within their company that they're striving towards, right? So I think success is probably a little bit different for every person, but having a definition is really important If you don't have a definition of success and you're not moving towards it, then my question would be, what are you doing? If there's any lack of clarity around success, people will default to the typical, like, I want to make a lot of money or I want to, you know, get my, get my license or something, which may be fine, but it's better to be very intentional about what your success definition is so that you can create a plan to Yeah, I mean, it's so, like I said, it seems so obvious, but yet so many people don't have one.

14:00 - Andy
So that's a great point right there. And once you do define that, so you know what success is in your life, in your career, what is it that successful engineers, successful AEC professionals do to I mean, that's probably another one that could take hours.

14:23 - Anthony Fasano
Well, I think if you have a success definition, I find that technical professionals are pretty good about putting together a plan, right? To achieve something, if they can see what it is, right? Like if we know that our project is to design a bridge or a roadway, we can start to think through the different steps we need, right? Like get the survey, do the plan, do the calculations. Same thing in your career. If you want to become a project manager or professional engineer or a president of your company, once you have that, you can start to put a plan together and figure out what skill sets do I need, right? If I want to get my license, maybe I need to take a review course, right? Or whatever the case may be. So I think the more detailed you can have that success definition, the easier it will be for you to figure out how to achieve it. And if you can't figure it out, that's where the mentor can come back in play, right? Someone in my office is a project manager or a president of the division or department. Let me ask them what they did, and then you could start to put your plan together.

15:25 - Andy
Yeah, fair. That's fair. Now, your track is really a project management track that you train people on. So, you know, somebody that's in a technical, like, I just want to be the best technical engineer, and I just want to go on a technical route my whole career. That probably wouldn't be, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't sound like an EMI path, right? Or would it be with regard to the project management?

15:56 - Anthony Fasano
So, it's a good question. And I think it's kind of a weak point for a lot of AEC consultant organizations is that they don't clearly show a path to success for technical professionals that want to stay technical for their entire career. In a lot of AEC organizations, it appears that you have to become a manager or a project manager or a VP to really grow the organization. And we've done some work with organizations to help them build their career paths out. And I think it's very important that as an organization in the technical world, you need to have technical experts. At the highest level, right? So I think it's on the company to create a career pathway and make it evident and clear for technical professionals that want to remain technical. That's okay, right? We'll support you in that endeavor. And then you also have to have a pathway for technical professionals that want to develop their leadership and project management skills and, you know, manage a department or a team or be a client manager or client contact. So I think it's important that companies can nurture both of those different career paths and make it very clear. Because I think the kind of assumption in our industry is that if you're not a manager, you're not going to go far in a company.

17:24 - Andy
So yeah, just be clear about that as a company level and at your success definition. But yeah, I mean, even if you went to technical, you're most likely going to have some kind of mentoring role. You're managing other engineers. It's going to be hard to grow, or architects, it's going to be hard to grow if you're just designing anchor bolts your whole life, right?

17:50 - Anthony Fasano
That's right, that's right.

17:52 - Andy
Or whatever it may be. But one thing, let's assume for the most part I think you probably manage and your training is geared toward the project manager managers. Is that, that's pretty much what your company is about, right?

18:07 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, so we have two different programs that we run. One is like people leadership skills, more leadership driven, and one is project management. So we kind of do both for companies depending on their needs. And we build a lot of custom programs for companies. So a lot of times we'll actually do a program that combines both because at the end of the day, most of the leaders in AEC organizations need to manage projects and lead people, right? It's not like they're doing one or the other. So it just depends on the situation, but we do focus a lot on both the people leadership side of things and project management.

18:43 - Andy
And I think both are significantly important in this AEC profession. I mean, it's, you have a lot of people involved and that's internally, that's on the other side, the people you're working with. Whether, depending on which side of the fence you're on, so to speak. But at one point in your career, you had sort of an epiphany about something that engineers and professionals, it's a dynamic interpersonal skills, you call it. When was that epiphany and what is dynamic interpersonal skills?

19:25 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, so I mentioned earlier that, you know, I wanted to be a partner in the company I worked for. And again, it was just looking at the partners at the time and recognizing that they did have these kind of dynamic interpersonal skills, meaning that they weren't just technically savvy, but they could interact with people really well, people they managed, people they led, clients, politicians, you know, sub consultants that knew how to speak with people and build relationships. And so it was pretty time that I recognized that these dynamic interpersonal skills are critical for a technical professional to expand, right, push their horizons and get into leadership and project management. And that's what forced me kind of on this path.

20:12 - Andy
Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, I think that having those skills could really get you ahead in your career. What does your organization do to help people with those skills?

20:30 - Anthony Fasano
So we have some programs that we run where companies want to enroll people in leadership or project management programs. But one of the things we've been doing a lot of is custom programs, because at the end of the day, you really want to make sure that your leadership and your project management programs are aligned with the way you do things with organization, right? Because every company manages projects a little bit differently, right? I mean, the fundamentals are the same, but the tools, the templates, the specific types of projects you do may be different. So what we try to do is tailor the programs. We also have kind of two, what I think are differentiators with our programs is one of them, we built an assessment called the ACPM Behaviors Assessment, which is actually a competency inside of a an assessment called the Harrison Assessment that measures the behavioral tendencies related to something like project management. And we embed that in our program. So if you're a project manager and you're going through one of our programs, it's not just, hey, this is how our company manages projects. It's also, hey, these are your natural tendencies as a PM. And if you want to become better, you can think about how you can modify some of these behaviors. So we layer a personal experience into the program, which I think is really important. And secondly, we have an industry-wide certification called the AEC PM certification, which is kind of like a PMP, but it's for the AEC world. And so I think those two things kind of really make our programs very specific to this industry.

22:11 - Andy
And I was pretty intrigued with the Harrison behavioral guide I guess. The last time we spoke because we really differentiated between that and the DISC profile which is something I'm familiar with and a lot of people are familiar with different personality tests. Can you help me understand the difference between those again?

22:39 - Anthony Fasano
So the DISC assessment is more of a personal type assessment, meaning that it's very helpful and brings a lot of awareness to the person that has gone through it. And it lets you want to know some of your personality traits that might impact your work as a leader or project manager as a person in general, which is helpful, but it's not going to change over your lifetime, most likely. Whereas the Harrison assessment looks at behaviors that are related to certain skill sets like project management or leadership and These are behaviors that you can modify over time once you're aware of them. So The Harrison actually is very interesting. It focuses on paradoxical leadership, which means that there are there may be two Traits or characteristics that seem to be opposite like for example blunt and diplomatic Right like you could be blunt or you could be diplomatic but what the Harrison says is you and the right touch of both. So if you're a project manager and you're just too blunt, you're probably going to rub people the wrong way. You're not going to get what you're looking for in a lot of situations. But on the flip side, if you're too diplomatic, people will take advantage of you. Contractors will run over you. So the Harrison will tell you if your natural tendency is to be more blunt, more diplomatic, or maybe you're in that quadrant where you have a good balance, which is crazy. It's known as forthright diplomacy. But if you're not there, it's going to tell you. So when you get into the next situation, you'll think to yourself, my natural tendency is to be really blunt. But what I need to try to do here is be a little bit more diplomatic. And it can drive real behavioral change. So that's why we like the Harrison, because if you took the assessment today, and if you took it two years from now, it could be a completely different result.

24:35 - Andy
And I got to say, I'm pretty intrigued by this. So after our last conversation, I really wanted to, I guess you have a new fan in me. So I've always followed you and enjoyed your material, but never actually signed up. So that's one of our goals. Because I think we could definitely benefit from some of these assessments, I could benefit from it, our team could benefit from it, our project managers, and also the training. So I'm a big fan of it. And I don't just say that. I mean, I really have been thinking about it a lot. So you have a lot of really helpful resources, some of which, I mean, they're not even, I mean, you can follow you for years and listen to podcasts and grow and improve without signing up, of course, right? So what are some of What are some of the resources that you have that can help people get those type of skills, those dynamic interpersonal skills or those leadership skills?

25:42 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, absolutely. If you go to our website, engineeringmanagementinstitute.org, and you click on the Career Advice tab, those are all of our podcast channels. Civil Engineering Podcast, the AEC PM Podcast, the AEC Leadership Podcast, we've got a couple YouTube channels to help them, FE exam, PE exam, pointer videos and tips. And creating all those resources was something I wanted to do when I started this company because I felt like there was a gap of knowledge. Like we know we need these skills, like you and I have been talking about, but not a lot of companies are offering training or development on these skills. So if you're an AEC professional listening to this podcast, you don't need anything from your company. You can go to our website and watch 200, 300 podcasts if you want to, right? So we wanted to create a library like that that is available to the industry, and it is now, and we continue to do podcasting still. Our training programs are just maybe another level where you're interacting with instructors and things of that nature, but there's a lot there that someone could dive in on.

26:46 - Andy
Yeah, awesome, but you do have some resources available too because, you know, maybe people want to go through a more official program or documented program, I guess, is some of the advantages of a program like you have at EMI. So those are definitely available as well. And also you have a new book out as well, which is another resource that you have.

27:13 - Anthony Fasano
I do. I have a new book out called Beyond PM Training and how to build a scalable AEC PM ecosystem. And the reason I wrote this we work with a lot of companies on PM development, right? How to develop your project managers. And what a lot of companies do for PM development is they do quote unquote PM training, right? They send people to a bootcamp once a year, once every other year, whatever the case may be. And what I realized was that that was only a small piece of PM development. That was one kind of piece of an ecosystem. And so what companies need to do to develop their PMs is they have to have clear job roles and responsibilities. They have to have clear career pathways. They have to assess their PMs regularly, like we're talking about with the PM behaviors assessment. Certainly want to provide PM training of some sort. You have to have PM software, right? How are they running their reports for their projects and Are they checking budgets? Tools and templates are important, right? Kick off meeting agendas, things of that nature. And then you have to be able to onboard new PMs and mentor them effectively. And last but not least, when the time is right for your company, you need to create a PMO or a project management office to manage all these things. So the book details each of the pieces of this ecosystem based on work we've done with organizations so that you can better develop sustainable project managers long term as opposed to just doing the annual PM boot camp or something like that, which is what most companies do.

29:01 - Andy
Now this, um, no, I have a smaller company, you know, I don't have a 200 or 2000 people for that matter. Um, we have a smaller company and a lot of people that listen to this, I mean, that's, that makes up a lot of your AEC. Is three to five people working in a small office somewhere, in a studio, if you will. So should they even listen to the advice in that book? I mean, they don't have a big enough company to have a PMO, do they?

29:33 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, but I think companies of any size should think about developing their project managers. And in a company of five, maybe it's four of the five people, right? But if they can manage projects effectively, the company's going to do well and grow potentially, right? The analogy I like to use, which I mentioned in the book is, if you go to a coffee shop and the coffee's really bad, guess what? You're not going back and they're probably going out of business, right? If you go to an engineering company and they can't deliver a project, then they're going out of business. I don't care if they're three people, five people, or 5,000 people. I think every company needs to be able to deliver projects effectively, and their project managers are the key to that. So I really think that what's in this book will translate to any size organization. You just have to understand that if you're an AEC organization, your job is projects, and you need to deliver them well.

30:31 - Andy
Yeah, awesome. I mean, you can't say it much clearer than that. Now, congratulations on the book, by the way, Anthony. And it's really, really cool. You wrote that and also, it's not just cool, it's also significant because you're providing this awesome resource for everybody that are in, you know, for project management and leadership. So, have you ever written a book before this one? Is this your first?

31:00 - Anthony Fasano
No, I've written a few books. Another one that I've written for engineers is called Engineer Your Own Success. Seven key steps to creating an extraordinary career. Which is basically a lot of the soft skills that we talked about, how to develop them. So that's been out there for a while. And then I recently did the one more around project management specifically for organizations. So I've written before, I enjoy writing, and I'm actually working on another book right now, which you could kind of say is like a brother or sister book to this Beyond PM training, which is more about the key characteristics of the best AEC project managers. We have about over a thousand data points of project managers that we've interacted with and we've asked them questions around what's the most important skill for AEC PMs. So we're identifying the top five and this book is going to outline those five skills and then provide action items that to develop those critical skill sets.

32:07 - Andy
Well, it sounds like I better get caught up on these other two so that I can Read this one when it comes out. So that sounds like a really good one. And I mean, what better what better tool than to look at, which is exactly how you got ahead. You've looked at other project managers, looked at other successful people in your career and said they're successful. I want to do it. Going to do, right? And that's what this book sounds like it's about is, you know, doing what people are doing well and repeating that. So, you know, we've talked a lot about, well, actually one question. So your book, your resources, do you have an example of maybe a company or a project manager that you could highlight that's gone through this training and you felt like really was transformed through that process? Maybe not specifics, but, you know, however you want to put it.

33:10 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, I mean, well, we've worked with thousands of PMs for companies across the country at this point, and, you know, we've gotten a lot of good feedback on how these have made, you know, monumental changes for people in their communication efforts, which translates to their home life, believe it or not, right? If you can communicate better at work, and communicate better at home. If you go on LinkedIn and you do a search for the AEC PM credential, you could see a lot of the PMs that share our certification that have it across the country. We're actually just working with a DOT now as well that has asked us to put together a PM program for 425 engineers at the DOT with our certification. And we finished one round of the course. We've gotten amazing feedback from people just talking about how it's them with their communication skills and their leadership ability. So we've been lucky to really work with private and public organizations and really what we try to do at EMI is we want this to be practical, transferable skills. So everyone's going to tell you you've got to be a great communicator as an engineer or an architect or as a professional. We want to show you how to do it and then have you practice on the job and that's what we focus on with our programs. They're very, very practical and transferable.

34:27 - Andy
Yeah, sounds pretty straightforward to me. So easy, or sorry, I always say straightforward, but not easy, right? There's a difference, correct?

34:37 - Anthony Fasano
That's correct.

34:39 - Andy
So thank you for sharing that, some of those examples, and I didn't realize you actually had like a certification that you could put on your business card, I guess?

34:50 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, we have an actual industry certification called the AEC PM certification, which is, they can check, any of your listeners can check out AECPM.com. And really it's like a PMP for the AEC industry because a lot of our clients had told us in the past that we really liked the PMP, but it is generic in nature. So if you go to a class for the PMP, you're sitting next to an accountant, you're sitting next to a financial advisor. In our class, they're all AEC professionals and we focus on AEC concepts. Project examples.

35:24 - Andy
I mean, yeah, I think it seems pretty obvious there's a significant difference between a banker or, you know, delivering that type of project, which not to mean, – it's a significant thing, it's important, and what we do. I mean, we're dealing with, you know, sticks and bricks, right? So, I want you to go in, I mean, we've talked a lot about your organization, EMI, but just maybe do a better job because, you know, to tie it together so people kind of understand, you know, what is EMI, what do you guys do, and help us understand that.

36:09 - Anthony Fasano
Sure, so the Engineering Management Institute focuses on helping AEC organizations develop better project managers and leaders. If you are a working project manager or consultant and you want to develop these skill sets, just go to our website, engineeringmanagementinstitute.org. We've got probably over a thousand podcasts, episodes, videos, articles, right in the career advice tab where you can kind of do it yourself and develop these skill sets. If you're listening and you have a company with multiple PMs and you need to develop them, then there's a corporate training button on our site with some information about our training programs and how to access us if you're interested in that. But we try to create resources that individuals can get, which are free, or that companies are interested in for a full development program or a custom development program for their organization.

37:02 - Andy
Yeah, awesome. So I wanted to make sure people knew how to get a hold of that. So what is going well for you right now and or EMI right now?

37:14 - Anthony Fasano
Yeah, I mean, overall things are going well with our training programs and the certification. One of the initiatives that we started recently was doing these AECPM Connect in-person events. And the idea with these events is to bring PMs from the industry together and those responsible for developing PMs in their organizations and get together and they talk about what's working, right? What's working for your company? What's working for ours? We have skill sessions. We have brainstorming sessions. We have one in Kansas City that we do in October, which we sold out recently and went really well. And then we have one in New Jersey that we're going to be running in June, which is also going to have about probably a hundred people there. So we created these because project management is so important in our industry. And a lot of times you can learn the most from what other organizations are doing, and they can teach you what they're doing, and you could find some commonalities and takeaways that you can use. And so the whole idea with AECPM Connect is to connect project managers and organizations together to help them all get better. And if anyone out there is listening and is interested, you can check it out at aecpmconnect.com. We have a couple, like I said, we have New Jersey and Kansas City right now. We may expand to more, but they're great events for individual PMs who want to build their or companies that want to improve their overall PM development efforts.

38:38 - Andy
Yeah, it sounds like a great opportunity if you're just kind of dipping your toes in the proverbial waters to find out a little bit more. Maybe you can really pick up some quick tips and some knowledge from people while you're there. So, I'm interested in it myself. But I do want to go back to something about Project management which is we were talking about like the coffee shop analogy so with regard to whether it's architecture engineering or construction I mean but I know my my business which is engineering the best so what do you say to somebody says well a project manager doesn't really matter I mean the team they if they're producing if they're just getting the work done The project management's like autopilot, like you don't need that. I mean, in fact, I went to one conference earlier this year and the gentleman said, project management, we're going to get rid of the project manager and just use a dashboard. So this idea that a project manager basically is unnecessary, that the project team can do it without a project manager, I mean, what would you say to that?

39:55 - Anthony Fasano
So what I would say to that is, for those of you that might be familiar with an old-fashioned wagon wheel, there's a linchpin in the middle. And if you pull the linchpin out, the wheel falls off. The project manager is essentially the linchpin in any project in any organization because they're talking to everybody, right? The PM is overseeing the team that's delivering the project. They're usually the client contact. Building the relationship with the client, which is going to help with the delivery of the current project, and getting repeat business, which is really the lifeline of all AEC firms. They're dealing with stakeholders, politicians, sub-consultants. So the project manager is almost in the middle of this rotating world of your project, and they have to keep everything going. They have to monitor the budget, they have to monitor the schedule, They have to make sure that everyone's happy on the project internally and externally. So to think that the project manager can disappear to me would be a very interesting endeavor because to me, they're the ones keeping everything going and the facilitator and the mentor and the guide and the client contact and so on and so forth. So I really think that the PM, like I said, if your company can't deliver projects effectively, you're in trouble. And the PM is responsible for that delivery.

41:17 - Andy
Yeah, that's a fair answer. And if you're a coffee shop, you do have to have good coffee. I mean, we can agree on that, right? Good engineering and good architecture.

41:31 - Andy
That's right.

41:32 - Andy
You can't outmanage bad coffee, right?

41:37 - Anthony Fasano
That's absolutely right. And I think the one thing about project management, too, that's very important, and it's almost a scale that I would say that you wouldn't normally think of is you also need to know who to go to for the right information on your project, right? Because a problem that comes up, who do I call? If you're in a company of 1,000 people, who do I call? If I'm in a company of five people, who do I need to call externally and get in on this project to help me, right? So that's like a skill that I don't think you would list if you thought of like top PM skills, but really that network and knowing where to find the right information is such an important aspect of project management.

42:20 - Andy
And I imagine that's tied to one of those Harrison personality traits, or not personality trait, but behavioral traits. Would that be a fair point or this idea of forcefulness?

42:33 - Anthony Fasano
Both, all of the above, right?

42:37 - Andy
And probably a little bit on the personality trait as well, but I think more of this Harrison thing is, like learning how to do that right so yeah I mean this is this is a great conversation and like I mentioned earlier I mean I'm I'm on the bandwagon to get some training we need it because you know we need to improve our projects so I hope I don't sound like I'm too much of a fanboy or anything but I really have enjoyed what I've learned today in our last conversation as well so so Anthony just a couple questions and then let you get on the road for your, maybe your travels for the week. But, because I know it's a holiday week, but yeah, so one thing, because this is the Enhance AEC podcast, we really like to understand what is it that drives people? What is their why? You know, why did you get into the project management field and training people in this area? What is your why when it comes to that?

43:39 - Anthony Fasano
It's very simple. I mean, as an engineer myself, I discovered the skill sets that were important for success. And I realized that they weren't real viable avenues to get those skills, help engineers and technical professionals develop those skills, right? It's kind of like, so you're telling me that we need dynamic interpersonal skills, great project management skills, but we don't learn those in college. And most companies providing that training, at least when I started my career back in 2000. So I saw it as a need. And I felt like if I could help other technical professionals find these skills, they'll be successful. And that's really, that was really the origin of it. And that's why we started with all the free content that we still grown to this day. And I just felt like someone needed to help technical professionals get the skills they need. And I thought that there was an avenue to do that. And that's when I was passionate about it, and that's what my focus was, and still is today.

44:36 - Andy
Yeah, well, it sounds like a really good why, and I mean, something that you can leave behind. You got some real significant things here that are gonna leave way past, you know, your legacy, if you will. It'll be your legacy, so that's really cool, and that's significant to have. So thanks for sharing that. So what's next for Anthony and EMI?

45:04 - Anthony Fasano
Well, we're going to keep doing what we're doing. We've got a lot of companies, organizations, and PMs that we can still help. I'm going to be working on this book with the top characteristics for AEC PMs, which I'm excited about. And my plan is to get it done in 2026. And we just want to continue to help more technical professionals become better project managers and leaders. And like I said, I think there's a lot of room to grow. There's a lot of people that need our help, and we're just going to keep on this path as we move forward.

45:37 - Andy
Well, I learned a lot today about project management, about leadership, just in this short period of time that I've been with you, Anthony. So I'm looking forward to learning more from you as well. And hopefully the audience will go and check out all those free resources and those other resources on your website. Was there anything else you to hit on today that I didn't bring up?

45:59 - Anthony Fasano
No, I mean, I guess the only thing I can leave the listeners with is our values at EMI are very simple. Give, guide, grow. We say, we give our all, we guide each other. And usually if you're doing those two things, you grow and they grow. So I think it's a great mindset to show to work every day, right? I'm going to give my all, I'm going to guide others. And if I do that, they're going to grow and I'm going to grow. And that's been a really good mission for us, values that are easy to remember. And I would say to anyone out there that if you are doing those two things every day, you're going to experience a lot of growth.

46:37 - Andy
And I appreciate that. That's a great place to leave it. So Anthony, it was a pleasure to have you on today. Hopefully we'll see you around. Maybe I'll see you in New Jersey, if not before, in June. So it'll be a little bit more than it is Well, thank you for having me on.

46:56 - Anthony Fasano
I really enjoyed the time together, and I hope the audience found it useful.

47:00 - Andy
Thanks, Anthony.

47:01 - Madeline
Hey, everybody.

47:03 - Madeline
Thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhanced, and please leave a like, a subscribe, or a follow, and we'll see you next time.