0:00 - Andy
Today we decided to go ahead and do the preview in pure fashion pre-podcast. Yeah, so we're downtown Beaufort, South Carolina and we're getting ready to do our podcast today. So we have Jake Maxey on and he's got a couple aspects. One, he's an engineer and so he's in the AEC industry. The E, engineering, and also he's an electrical engineer so he's a double E. So Jake is he's become a friend of mine because I met him on LinkedIn and he actually was one of the people that encouraged me to be on to start a podcast. So this is kind of a special podcast for me for that reason and yeah I'm excited to learn a lot about him.

0:54 - Madeline
Yeah you said you met him on LinkedIn and I think you said, didn't you say he's an electrical engineer?

0:59 - Andy
Right, he's electrical and he's got his own podcast as well, Impactful Engineer, we're gonna hear about that. Is there anything, is there any engaging question that you might want to know about from a electrical engineer that has their own podcast?

1:18 - Madeline
That's a key element there, he has his own podcast.

1:23 - Andy
Yeah, so.

1:24 - Madeline
I guess kind of, since I'm not, I would like to know what inspired that. You said he does it with his brother. Is he also an engineer? Some points like that.

1:36 - Andy
Yeah, so his brother is Steve, Steve and Jake. And Steve is more of a product engineer is what I understand. So I'll find out and confirm that. I've listened to the podcast a few times. It's a pretty good podcast, by the way. Check it out. And they talk a lot about like, well, what it says, how to be more impactful as, in this industry, as an engineer, probably applies to others in the AEC industry as well. So yeah, it could apply to you. If you want to impact people and just like success, life habits, life tips, like for example, of them was on one of the episodes was on like how to communicate better and you know that was one that I listened to not too long ago so yeah that's that's what we have to look forward to. Well I hope everybody enjoys the podcast today and we're gonna have a good time. Hey everybody my name is Andy Richardson and this is our producer Madeline and this is the Enhance HD podcast where we interview professionals in the AEC industry and find out what their what and their why is and how they enhance the world around them. Let's get started.

3:06 - Madeline
Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why.

3:13 - Jake Maxey
Well Jake, welcome to Thanks, happy to be here.

3:20 - Andy
Thanks for being on today. Or should I call you Mario?

3:24 - Jake Maxey
Mario?

3:26 - Andy
Mario Andretti. I'm giving you a hard time because I was listening to your podcast, and this was probably several episodes back, and you were talking about a crazy, reckless driving experience you had as a high school kid, and you got pulled over from the cops and everything. I was like, one day I'm gonna get him on that one.

3:48 - Jake Maxey
That sounds right, yeah, totally. Multiple occasions.

3:52 - Andy
Does that story sound, do you remember that story?

3:56 - Jake Maxey
Oh my gosh, well, my story, my greatest story with the car was when I was 24 years old, actually. Newly married, had a kid, my daughter was just born, and then I'm still a child, so I'm driving around in my 240 in my little sports car, my Nissan, and you know, thinking that I'm all great. And I, I chose an area that was totally like, there's no traffic, you know, it's long country roads. It's, it's, it's kind of middle of nowhere, but still in the town. So I'm like, all right, let's go mess around. And then of course the one fire hydrant that is within, you know, half a mile of the entire place, my car was like attracted to it. And so I hit it, sheared it right off, water everywhere, causing all sorts of problems. Yeah, it was great. I mean, look it up.

4:42 - Andy
That was the one.

4:43 - Jake Maxey
Was it? I don't remember.

4:45 - Andy
I thought it was something about a ditch, or I forgot it was the hydrant.

4:48 - Jake Maxey
I wish I could say that it was still high school, but nope, just Jake being dumb.

4:55 - Andy
Hey man, we're all kids at heart. I was doing something with the cousins and the kids the other day, and I had to be all-time quarterback, and I was like, when do I get to play? Anyway, I was like, I'm a kid too. But it was fun. Thanksgiving and all. So that was a little bit of an intro question. And then I like to do kind of a curveball. So here's your curveball question. Is there an interesting ritual or habit that you do on your projects? Baseball players like to do rituals and things. Is there a ritual that you have, or maybe a superstition even, but anything like that that you do on projects?

5:47 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, I like that. No rituals. I'm not a ritual person. If it was a ritual, it's just go and do. It's not take too long to think about things and struggle that way. It's just do the work as quickly as possible. I don't know. Lots of coffee. I'm a caffeine addict for sure, almost to a point where I need to start worrying about it, but we're not quite there yet, so let's worry about that later.

6:18 - Andy
Yeah, I discovered decaf recently, so I was like, yeah, maybe I could kind of pipe down some of that.

6:24 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, nah, no dirty socks, no wearing my underwear for a week straight, you know, nothing like that.

6:30 - Andy
Yeah, sounds good. Well, so I guess really, I want to start off with a more traditional question of how did you get started in engineering? How did you get started in the AEC industry at large? What drew you to this?

6:47 - Jake Maxey
So, nothing drew me to it. I had made my way through college because I said I was going to, and I'm not a quitter, so I got my electrical engineering degree, which is great, decided that I was going to stick with I was working out of college, which was a managing a pizza place and it was it was making me good money and it was ton of fun. And so I was thinking ownership and opening stores and doing all that. And I'm like, yeah, engineering, whatever. And then, you know, things happen. And so I my wife took an opportunity back home in my hometown of Reading. And so I'm like, all right, yeah, we can do that. And this thing is, you know, this pizza place thing It's kind of scary where we're married now and we're gonna we have a kid on the way and pizza restaurants like yeah People drop off and you got to be there all the time. So restaurants like you'd really got to be married to it So I'm like, okay fine I'll quit that and then it was just a it was a my grandpa heard that I was moving back home and he had started an engineering firm decades before and this was long ago and he's no longer part of it, but he was like Hey, I heard you're moving back. Will you get a real job now? Like Sure, what do you got for me? And so that's how I got into the AEC world. So he had started a electrical engineering firm back in the 80s.

8:08 - Andy
Okay, so that wasn't something you planned, was working for your grandfather? No.

8:13 - Jake Maxey
I had no idea what building systems engineering even was, or like construction. I knew that there had to be some sort of construction field because things were built, but yeah, I knew nothing.

8:23 - Andy
Isn't that crazy? Like, that's your grandfather, but you really didn't know what he did.

8:28 - Jake Maxey
Right. Well, you know, and the truth is, like, step-grandfather, part of the family, but, you know, saw him once or twice a year. I was moved to, you know, I'm being a kid. I'm out studying. I'm way away from it. But yeah, like, it is kind of crazy. I had no idea they had started this firm. I'm like, oh, really? And that takes engineering. Yeah. Oh. Because I was all about, like, theory and microelectronics. They were teaching me all about programming stuff and building amplifiers and processing digital signals and stuff. And I'm just like, this is terrible. I don't like this at all. Is there something else? And then even looking for an AC power class or some sort of motors class or anything, it wasn't even offered. There was no teacher to teach that. The school was heavily focused on microelectronics and stuff like that.

9:19 - Andy
Yeah.

9:20 - Jake Maxey
No idea it existed.

9:24 - Andy
It's a good mix, I think, because it sounds like you really like the building side, but you have the electrical degree.

9:32 - Jake Maxey
Right. It just so happens it is a baseline requirement to become a professional engineer in this field. So good thing.

9:39 - Andy
You got to have the degree, right?

9:40 - Jake Maxey
That's right.

9:41 - Andy
Good thing I got it. So what town was that?

9:45 - Jake Maxey
Was that Pennsylvania, Red Nope, this is R-E-D-D-I-N-G, Redding, and this is in California.

9:52 - Andy
Okay, California, got it, okay. Yeah, I'm a little bit familiar with that and a lot of, you know, the reading railroad, but it's actually pronounced Redding, but this is California, different one.

10:01 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, this is a whole different land from the East Coast, which is where I'm at now.

10:06 - Andy
So you're, that was in California, but now you're over on the East Coast. Right. You're in Massachusetts area.

10:13 - Jake Maxey
Yep.

10:14 - Andy
And did you, So you continue to work for the grandfather's company or Yeah, I spent like seven years there. So that's where I learned a lot of the stuff that I know today I got my producer here today Madeline and she's gave me the six seven symbol, right?

10:33 - Jake Maxey
Yeah Yeah, I steer clear from that stuff my kids talk about it I'm just like that they seem to be over it too already.

10:43 - Andy
So Yeah, most part, the most part it is. So that's the first time I made it to the podcast. So hopefully the last. Anyway, but you know, we got to have a little laugh here and there too. So, um, well, that's awesome. Um, to kind of hear about how you got started with it and really an interesting start, but what, I think the thing that I wanted to sort of play off of for a moment was this idea, cause this is the enhanced podcast. Talk about, you know, enhancing the world around us and what does that really mean? I mean, I get a sense from you that's really important to you, like with your podcast, etc., as well. And I mean, just reading your bio and the kind of thought you put into your business plan for your new business. But the thing I was going to tie into with like your grandfather's business is just that two-generation and we think what we're doing is so big, right? Like such a big deal, like today's projects and this and that, and yet our grandkids probably won't even know what we do, right? They may not, they may know, right? I mean, they might, oh, my dad did something building or engineering or, well, I'm not my dad, but my grandfather. Even my kids barely know what I do, you know? So I don't know, there was just something to that. I think that helps give us some perspective when we think about those type things as far as what type of value we put on our work. Does it make us put more value or less value or having a higher purpose to it?

12:24 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, usually when I'm using that frame, nobody's gonna remember or nobody really is gonna know. Just a couple generations away, it's like they're not really gonna know what you did Truly who you were or whatever usually when I'm using that it's it's to lessen my anxiety because because Despite what people think about me. I do have a ton of anxiety. I just know how to like Throw it away. I know how to get rid of it quick and that's one of my frames is like dude you think it's so important right now and everything's so urgent and just like God so we got to get it done and you just have this like freak out and then you go, dude, nobody's going to care in a couple of generations. Quite honestly, no one's going to care. No one's going to remember. No one cares now even. So why would we care later? Why would we care now? So that helps me calm down. But for my work, I think it just shows me that it's more important, I think, to go horizontal with the influence and the mentorship and bring a large group of people up with you integrated into what you're doing so that you can raise your community with you. You can bring people that may not have known about AEC with you, give them a taste of it. That's why I'm involved in the ACE Rhode Island affiliate for the ACE Mentorship Program. It just shows kids exactly what AEC is all about and the paths and the careers. That you can take. So I think really, if it's something to do with work and our projects and stuff, I think it's that it's not you that is important in the project, it's that everybody can join in on the process, learn a few things. And it's not about just being very narrow with your success, it's about sharing that success, if that makes any sense.

14:25 - Andy
It does, I mean, and that's where That does matter. That will impact. I mean, and that's your podcast, right? Impactful Engineer. I mean, that will impact future generations because you're doing something that matters. I mean, and to be fair, the work we do does matter, right? I mean, not to belittle that, but I think the way we approach it, like that it's It's the end of the world kind of thing. That's where we have to be careful about it. But yeah, certainly the work we do, the buildings that we're designing and the work we do in that regard certainly I think matters.

15:09 - Jake Maxey
Absolutely. It's important. I mean, people are going to use that for a very, they're going to use what is constructed for so long, right? Yeah, which is probably. It's going to be a huge asset to them.

15:19 - Andy
Yeah, exactly. And I think that's probably why it's important to take time to do it right.

15:25 - Jake Maxey
Yes, certainly do it right.

15:28 - Andy
And really think about that impact, right? Yeah. But yeah, you definitely spend a lot of time mentoring people, like the organizations you just mentioned. Obviously, I met you on LinkedIn, and I just noticed how you were reaching out to people, just providing your insight. I haven't really seen that post in a while. I guess it's time to drop another one out, maybe. But I certainly appreciate you doing that, it's encouraging to me, and I took you up on it, right? I mean, even though I'm not necessarily a wet behind-the-ears engineer, but I was like, you know what, I have an interest in podcasting, and so you were an encouragement to me to start this podcast. So this has been a long time coming, actually, for us to have this today, you know, so it's been pretty exciting to have you on.

16:18 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, it's cool to see, and hopefully Just keep on going, get to that 100.

16:23 - Andy
Yeah, I don't know where we're at now, but we're getting there. I think we're about a quarter of the way, so we're gonna keep going. Definitely you're an inspiration to me, and I know a lot of others, so keep doing it. What is it that, I mean, we mentioned the generational aspect. Is there anything else that encourages you or inspires you to go ahead and be this mentor to other people?

16:48 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, for sure. It's the mentoring that I received growing up, of course, and then this recent like 10 15 year stretch of personal development that I dove into. When I had this moment when I was younger and I'm just like, you know what, there's got to be somewhere to point all this energy that I have in a constructive way and become a better person. So I started looking for mentors of my own and I found them through podcasting. And so years of that, and then hearing one of the podcasters that I listened to say that you're most qualified to help the person you used to be. And I was like, ah, that's so cool. That clicked for me really well. And so I'm like, hmm, how do I do that? So I started really pouring into that at work. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm getting higher in the rung and moving up the ladder. And I've got these positions where I can have, you know, people under me and I'm a manager. Oh, cool. I'm starting to see these people that used to be just like me. And so then I get to start mentoring like crazy. So that was great. But there's also, you know, there's always a selfish motivation too. Like, gotta be honest that getting out there, meeting people, mentoring is very beneficial to me as well. It enhances my skills in communication. I learned more about human connection than I ever had just doing my own work and staring at a computer, right? So it's to benefit me, it's to benefit them, and ultimately what I'm looking for is growth. I want to continue to grow, and I have so much drive and energy that if I don't put it into something constructive, it becomes destructive pretty quick. So I just want to stay focused and pursue things that are worth pursuing. And be useful. That's my biggest thing that I tell everybody. I just want to be useful. And I feel pretty good if I can do that. So I might as well do that. And I think going outside of myself and helping others is a great way to do that. It's been really great the last 10, 15 years.

19:00 - Andy
Yeah, awesome, Jake. And was there somebody that, well I guess on the podcast, Was there something that you really benefited from the most that like a mentor? From that standpoint.

19:15 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, so just out of being online, you know and cruising Instagram when it was first coming out and You oh, I found that I met someone that was had the energy that I had right curse like a sailor just really loud right? This is a very different version of me today. Excited just all the time. Never wanted to be this destructive force, but kind of was because we're just so loud and obnoxious kind of Anyway, I found that person. I'm like, oh, I really and just so happens that that person had my mentality, but was also teaching people how to point in the right direction, how to control yourself, how to be a positive force in the world, how to you know, basically a personal development guru is what they would be labeled, right? But I found them, I, it was relevant to me. I'm like, dude, I like the way you talk. And you're saying things like, you know, it's great that you have a plan, but then you're gonna get punched in the mouth. Then what? You know, everybody gets punched in the face. You think you're gonna do great, and then you're gonna get kicked, your teeth are gonna get kicked in. And I'm like, yeah, that sounds like life to me. But then on the other side of that, right, there's why is that? How do we roll with life? When it does kick us in the face. And so that was my entry into it. So then they started teaching me just about, you know, it's all the same stuff, not controlling your emotions, but we all have emotions, so what do you do with them when they show up? And so it started to guide me. That was my foray into personal development.

20:55 - Andy
Yeah, okay, that's awesome. But that was just, it wasn't a podcast per se, it was just somebody we met like on Instagram.

21:03 - Jake Maxey
It was a random reel that I saw and the guy was like, yeah, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. And I'm like, oh, this is interesting. And then yes, they did have a podcast. And so I found that, started listening to the episodes and it was all about personal development. But delivered in a way that I like it to be delivered, right? So that was...

21:23 - Andy
That's the cool thing about podcasting is you just have all these different podcasts And sometimes you'll find one that resonates with you.

21:32 - Jake Maxey
And it can be the same information. You're just like, I don't like the way this is delivered and I'll never listen to this again. It can totally be true.

21:41 - Andy
Yeah. And how about at your work or in your career? Is there somebody that took you under their wing early on or that helped you out?

21:53 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, there's always been. You know, that one manager and leader that, that sees the potential in you and kind of just provides that extra level of mentorship, um, goes a little farther in, in teaching and pointing you in the right direction, you know? So I do owe a lot of that, um, that early growth to the opportunities given and the ability to make some mistakes and just be like, Hey man, we make mistakes. Just keep going. Just don't do that again. It's like, all right, cool. We'll do that again. You know, So yeah, people at work have, there's been a couple of, and teachers too. Like, even back to high school, I can remember back to sixth grade and then my first grade teacher was great. So like, there definitely are those key people that I can absolutely remember throughout the years that were very influential, so.

22:46 - Andy
Yeah, how would we be where we are today without teachers and the people that, I mean, in the engineering field, much like architecture, I mean, you have to have, you have to have a mentor, really, to work under to get your PE. I mean, you can't get without it, whether you, maybe they're not necessarily a mentor, per se.

23:06 - Jake Maxey
Right, but you can find yourself chasing after one as soon as that deadline comes up. I just dropped an episode on that, actually. I think it's the latest one. Was, hey, here's what you need to think about four years before you're ready to get your PE, and it'll make your life so much easier. So I kind of like laid it out, yeah.

23:23 - Andy
Okay, that sounds like a good episode. Yeah, I mean, start thinking about that stuff beforehand, right? Yeah. As opposed to like four years.

23:30 - Jake Maxey
But like, I remember that because the mentioning the mentors, it's like, yeah, you do. And I think there's like three of them. And I don't know if the rules have changed, but you got to have multiple engineers or licensed sign off on.

23:42 - Andy
Right. Well, you got to have one, you have to work under one, but then you also have to have, I think, four or five. In our state that can attest to your engineering abilities, basically. And then, of course, you have to have, you have to have even more that attest to your, that are not engineers, that attest to your ethics, your character. So you can't, you gotta be smart and ethical to be an engineer, right? So you just, you've been on your own, what, has it been a year now?

24:25 - Jake Maxey
That's coming up on it. I started a company, I started my company earlier this year in, I think it was the middle of January.

24:34 - Andy
Okay.

24:37 - Jake Maxey
Tried to get as much runway as I could with that company before I quit my job. So I quit my job So I've been full time coming up on six months now.

24:48 - Andy
Okay, well congratulations. Yeah, thank you. How is business ownership?

24:55 - Jake Maxey
I think it's great. I'm happier than I've ever been with work. Work has been great. I love working. I've had this work ethic that's just crazy off the wall. My entire life, I was born with it for sure. So I love work. Anything I'm doing to work, I just love work. But this is definitely the most free I've felt, and to do my own thing, and to explore my curiosities, and to test things out. You can't test a whole bunch of stuff when you're an employee that has a certain job that has a utilization rate and people are on you and you can't, you know, you have these things you got to do and being on my own, it's like, okay, you know, I have the quickest conversations in the world. I'm like, should we change this? And I go, yeah, sure. Okay, cool. It's done. All right. Do we have to check with anybody? No, just me. Okay, cool. Approved. You know? And then we test it and then it falls flat. You get no response. It's terrible. Cool. What about that was terrible. All right, we're going to move that into something else. I'm going to move quick." And you don't have to debrief or explain why you did that or, here's what I would have done. And it's like, yeah, but I learned a whole bunch from that. So I guess what I'm saying is there's way less friction. I'm just so free to do what I want. If it fails, it's my problem. If it succeeds, it's my problem. If I have to go back to work, that's my problem. If I can't pay my bills, that's my problem. I think it's great.

26:34 - Andy
Yeah, it's fun. Welcome to entrepreneurship, right?

26:38 - Jake Maxey
Yeah. A lot of people that I talk to are very scared of doing it. They're like, have you thought about this? I'm like, no. And they're like, how could you not have thought about that? I'm like, I don't know, because maybe it would scare me into not doing it. I'd rather just not know.

26:51 - Andy
I mean, this is a guy that runs over the speed limit on a 240Z and hit the hydrant. I mean, so that's why right there.

26:59 - Jake Maxey
You know that roads are slick. And it's a real drive car, you put too much power to the wheel, you're gonna slide everywhere. It's like, yeah, I know, cool.

27:06 - Andy
I didn't think about that. And it was like, afterwards, like, yeah, I could have hit a fire hydrant. You know what? And that's so true. It's almost like, oh, man, how did I get by, you know, all those years? In your case, how did I get by at all, you know, in that first year? But, you know, you do somehow.

27:30 - Andy
You just, you do.

27:34 - Andy
And you're an engineer, so you had a plan. You sort of built the book of business beforehand. You weren't totally out to lunch, right?

27:44 - Jake Maxey
Kinda, I kinda had a plan, yeah. Well, I've been wanting to start a business for so long. Basically, you know, when I was telling, like I wanted to open up restaurants. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. Business is great. I've wanted to. And then you start a family. You settle down, you buy a house. Now you have the bills are stacking up, and then there's this health insurance thing that you have to pay for. And then, oh, so if you leave your job, there's this whole premium that you gotta pay for, and your health insurance is like, okay. And so all these things stack on you, and they scare you, and you go, okay, next year, okay, next year. And then the debt piles up. So I was literally like, well, when are we gonna start this business thing? And so we kind of, we had a half-baked plan, my wife and I, and I said, okay, two years from this day, I made it about six months, and then I just quit my job. I'm like, I'm gonna go crazy, and things are gonna get just, frankly, kind of nasty. I'm gonna be in a bad mood. This is really starting to pile on me. I need to start my own business right now. And then she's finally like, okay, let's do it. I'm like, I know you're scared like but so I had I had you know, no savings tons of bills And I just did it. I'm like, you know what we're gonna figure it out because we always do like Like like we all we've always figured it out in the past like insert problem. Oh, we've got to overcome it easily Why are we always here and always make our payments? Why do we always have groceries? Why do we always have new clothes? Why do we always get to take a nice little vacation every year? Why, why, why? Because we make it happen, right? Okay, cool. We'll insert this big problem like a job salary going away and health benefits and shove it here and say, here's our new set of problems. Okay, let's overcome them. And that's what we did. So for me, it's like, so the real, real, okay, is I have whatever amount of money in my 401k and I don't look at my 401k as the end-all be-all gonna take care of me when I'm older I don't I look at the business is gonna generate me some great money and value and wealth that's what I look at I don't care about the 401k in my mind so I was like okay if I have to I can just withdraw some stuff well don't you know there's penalties and taxes and all these things to think about and I go sure but that's just another fear to make me not do it So yeah, the real, real is, okay, one or two months, I've had to take a little chunk out and pay the bills. Here's the discussions. It was like, how about we just not pay our mortgage this month?

30:30 - Jake Maxey
How about that?

30:31 - Jake Maxey
And then we'll get it next month. I'll go sell really hard and we'll get some deposits and I'll pay for it. They're not going to foreclose on our house instantaneously. We've been paying this bank for years. We've made them tons of money. We miss one payment. I'll call them on the phone. And I'll say, hey, Jake here, you've never heard from me because I've always paid you. Hello, not gonna make it this month. I'll get you next month. But, you know, I- I haven't had to do that yet. I would have done that, but you know, it's not the best plan to keep everybody feeling good in the household. So I was like, all right, I'll take somebody out, you know?

31:04 - Andy
Yeah.

31:06 - Jake Maxey
I, yeah, I'm just, maybe to a fault, I'm not scared of doing these things. But I always tell my I'm like I would live in a box. Feel great. I would feel great living in a box and having my own company But I gotta take care of the family, you know, right?

31:23 - Andy
A lot of times yeah, we have you know, we have to take care of our ladies, right?

31:30 - Jake Maxey
We can't just let everybody down Now do you have any employees?

31:34 - Andy
Is it you?

31:35 - Jake Maxey
Um, I don't have any employees I No, I don't. I use contractors.

31:42 - Andy
You have some contractors that you work with? Yeah. So like, they are hourly, they work, you know, contract amount or...

31:49 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, hourly, fixed, whatever's good, you know, whatever looks good for the project. Yeah, for them. If they're happy with it, I'm happy with it, then we do it.

31:59 - Andy
Yeah, okay. That's cool. And are they just people that you've worked with in the past? They're doing this on the side, like...

32:07 - Jake Maxey
That's why it's so great to have good relationships with all the people around you and have a good network, because there's gonna be a lot of them that wanna do side work, that wanna get more experience, that are happy to be freelancers. And today makes it really easy, right? You can connect with people so easily. And a lot of engineers now are doing work on the side, or that's their whole business model is being a freelancer. Freelancer. So plenty of people that know how to run software and put things together, produce, know way more than I would ever know about putting a great model together. And I don't need to be doing that. I'm giving away everything here, but I don't need to be working in a model and slaving away and putting in boxes and, oh, the receptacle goes here and the light goes here and dang it, I'm fighting the reference plane. Why is this not working? Call the architect and be like, where's your ceiling? It disappeared. Oh, the light fixture's on the floor. Why would the owner of the business be doing that? That's for people that want to do that, that are good at it, and that are fast at it.

33:21 - Andy
I don't know how to use Revit. And I've actually had this conversation with another architect who runs a business, and he's really good at Revit. And he runs his own business, and he does have a team and everything, but he can get in there, and he's the best at Revit, in fact, part of his company. And it's interesting, because he's like, you really need to know Revit, because these are the buildings you're designing, and you need to be able to spin it around, and so I've sort of thought about that, and currently I don't use Revit. I mean, we're structural, but we're still design of buildings from a structural standpoint. Anyway, so maybe I will at one point, but there's always 10, 11, or 20 things to do, right?

34:12 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, I would say if it becomes a strategic advantage for you, then sure. But I don't know that doing Revit yourself as the business owner is ever gonna make it to the top and be your constraint that's gonna grow your business.

34:23 - Andy
I don't know that.

34:24 - Andy
I agree. But it's one of those things that's like, Maybe it would help to be a better mentor if I could at least understand it. I'm an engineer, so I like understanding how things work. I don't really see myself doing all the Revit, but maybe it would help to say, hey, what if you tried it this way, but I don't know what this way looks like yet. I have been doing it for several years. We've been using Revit for about eight years now. Pretty much when I started we went Revit, and I haven't really turned back, but I don't know how to, I do know how to double click on the text boxes.

35:05 - Jake Maxey
There you go.

35:05 - Andy
And change the text.

35:08 - Jake Maxey
I know enough to get into trouble. The people I work with have been using it since 2014, and so I know enough to get in there, change things, but I'm really happy that I'm not the greatest at it because it keeps me from wanting to do it myself. That would just be another thing that I would have to overcome. Exactly. Because I've seen way too many managers and engineers that are 30-year veterans, 20-year veterans that just know so much about engineering and should be directing and making high-level decisions and saving people from putting in underrated equipment or something that positions the owner or the architect in a really bad they should be looking for those things, and instead they're on the computer doing lighting photometrics or something. And I almost would feel a very strong pull to do that, because I like to work, I like to do everything. So I'm happy that I don't know, because it's just another tendency that I don't have to manage. I could just be like, okay, I don't need to do this. Yeah.

36:14 - Andy
And that pretty much was my thought process, generally speaking, was if I burn Burn it down, like burn down the ships, right? And so if you burn down the ships, then you have to figure it out. And that's kind of what I did. I just said, I'm not gonna install such and such program because then, like Revit, for example, or maybe an engineering program because it's gonna force me to lead the team and show them how to do it and build a system to do it. You can always just do it yourself, but that's not really leadership. That's just doing it yourself.

36:59 - Jake Maxey
That's right.

37:04 - Andy
Congratulations on starting your company. That's pretty exciting. Let's talk about electrical engineering for a moment. Let's do it. Because you're my first electrical engineer on here. I mean, Stoney, he came on, he does a little bit of all three, kind of MEP, but pure electrical. So, that's exciting. So, what is processing?

37:27 - Jake Maxey
Cheers.

37:31 - Andy
So, and you work as an electrical engineer for building design, right? Pretty much. Is that correct?

37:39 - Jake Maxey
Yep.

37:40 - Andy
So, what do you do? Like, who do you work for? What is an electrician? Cause we're generic, we're AEC. So we have some people with maybe all different facets. And I don't really know what you do. So help me understand.

37:55 - Jake Maxey
Cool. Well, I'll start with like BD mode, Jake. We help electrical contractors and architects look good. That's what we do. Ooh, I like that. So that's it. If you're an electrical contractor or an architect and you want to have successful projects, look good, and everybody on the team feels great about what's happening with the project. Communication is clear. Money is being saved. Corners are not being cut. That's what we do. So that's NLS. That's what we're trying to build as the standard. What do I actually do? So everybody kind of gets the building systems engineering, and yeah, there's systems in buildings, and we've got to design them, right? There's the overarching codes. The reason we're professional is to ensure the life safety of the public and the people within the building, right? This is our core tenant, okay? But electrical engineers, so a lot to do with electrical safety, and we're providing, so if you go from like a fire alarm standpoint, we're providing notification and detection, and so we wanna know as soon as possible if there's a problem, and we wanna let people know to get out as soon as possible, and we want them to know where to go And so electrical engineers have all of that in their purview. Down to lighting, exit signs, signage, telling you where to go, how to get out, and how to do it safely, right? So we're designing to codes, okay? But we're also designing to functionality of the building. So you need to bring power in somewhere, right? So we're coordinating with the utility, the company is, you know, it's a grid company, they're supplying, they're not electricity but they're just transmitting it and bringing it to your building right so we start there and we bring it into the building there's a whole bunch of technical jargon and safety stuff with that but basically we're bringing power to your building we're bringing data interconnectivity to your building so that you can run the machines that you need to run within your building run your lights power your office workstations if it's an office building power your semiconductor fab if it's if it's you know, a manufacturing plant. So from the simple, even just single family residence, all the way up to a huge manufacturing facility, all of the electrical, anything that has to do with electricity in that building, we are designing, touching, at least coordinating, trying to create a bid set that is gonna drive good competitive costs for construction to the building and that doesn't blow up in your face and have all sorts of change, you know, orders and all this stuff during construction. So that's what an electrical engineer does. We can go really deep with a lot of stuff. Those semiconductor fabs, they got a lot of nasty gases and liquids and things that they use in their processes that will kill you quickly. So detection systems, gas detection, alerting, controls, you know, ventilation gets in the mechanical, but this is what we're doing. Owner wants thing in building, how do we do it safely, right? And cost-effectively. Yeah.

41:12 - Andy
Because that's what, I mean, you know, that's ultimately what they care about. They want that thing, right? Whatever it is, you know, they want the outcome. They don't care necessarily about you know, how you use Revit or how, you know, this and that.

41:31 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, usually how I frame it for, I mean, even senior engineers and not a lot of people really think about it to the fundamentals. It's like, we are creating, you know, contractual documentation. Like, we are creating the roadmap for the owner on their behalf to get them the building and the process that they need like that's really what we're doing and and we do have big levers to pull on cost and safety and schedule and maintenance when it's turned over and protection of their asset once we're long gone like we should be thinking about all those things we are writing that contract that tells somebody else these are the things that you need to stick to these are the procedures and These are the requirements. You're the builder, you know. We bow down to you. Installing an electrical box would be hard for me, okay? I get it. But these are the requirements. So we try to speak to the contractors too. So it's not just like, oh, I'm good at putting panel schedules together. Okay, great. Let's go draw it. Just think about a high Like we are all part of this mechanism that is way more than what we're doing right in front of us.

42:53 - Andy
Yeah. And we should be working together, right, as a team, even though sometimes there's breakdowns in that. So one thing I was noticing, looking at your bio, I like some of the stuff you had to say on here. For example, tying back to what I just said, but your mission is to make it unreasonable for customers to work with anyone else through unparalleled service communication, innovative thinking, and technical excellence. So that's a pretty high bar right there. How do you hit that bar?

43:33 - Jake Maxey
You just try every day, man. Of course, there are systems to put in place. There are golden rules. Which to operate by, and core values, and I have all those, and you do too, that support that mission. And I wanted to take, like, I don't see any other AEC firms saying stuff like that or taking the approach or framing it that way. So I really thought, I'm kind of a punchy dude. I want to throw a punch, right? I want to be Our mission is to make it unreasonable that you work with, like, if you chose to work with somebody else, that would be a failure of the mission, right? Like, we want to do so well and protect your assets so well and have the process go so smoothly that you would, why would it even cross your mind to use somebody else?

44:31 - Andy
Yeah, and how do you do that, though? Like, what is it that, What makes you different that makes it unreasonable?

44:41 - Jake Maxey
Let's try to actually make it make sense. Because you can go off on like all this stuff like, oh, communicate really well and all, you know. To operationalize this success that we're trying to bring our clients, first you want to ask them, right, and which I've been doing for months, what are your biggest problems? And then you just want to do the opposite of all of that. So when I ask an architect, and I've asked like 40 architects that have talked to me long enough, I say, if you can wave a magic wand, what would be one thing you fix with your engineers forever? And it never happens again. So a lot of it comes down to communication, but it's more than that. Like not being on the meetings, even when they don't pertain necessarily to engineering, but gathering context around the project. So they excuse themselves from all meetings and they charge based on meetings. And if we get to three meetings, then the fourth one, we got to do an ad service. And I'm just like, oh, that's a pain point for you guys. Okay. Proposals, I just say, NLS will attend all meetings, period. There is no ad service for more meetings. And it's worked out pretty well so far. Because I found that a lot of people are arguing about it, but like I said, I want to do the opposite of what the pain is. So they're like, oh, the people just don't show up and they're always charging more for meetings. So I'm just, okay, great. Good info. Thank you. I'm not going to charge for meetings and I'm going to be at all of them.

46:24 - Andy
Boom.

46:27 - Jake Maxey
And so that helps them, right? Because it does, like I get a ton of context, people talking about lighting design and one interior designer makes a comment about the reflectance on this wall or like in this room and we don't want, you know, and I'm not like this perfect lighting designer, but I'm in charge of the lighting, right? But would they have said anything if I wasn't in that meeting? They obviously care about it. So it shall be addressed.

46:57 - Andy
Well, I mean, yeah, the fact that you weren't in the meeting, it made the, yeah, there was nothing that came up because you weren't there, and it's like, okay, you know, the electrical engineer's not here, so we're not gonna talk about lighting, we're not gonna talk about this control system, because he's not here. And maybe I did have something that I wanted to bring up, but I didn't, right? That's right. I mean, so, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So that's a good example, and there's probably a hundred of those, right? There is.

47:26 - Jake Maxey
It's like with RFIs and submittal turnarounds and stuff like that. One of the architects was like, I send the lighting package and then two weeks go by, no response. And then when they do look at it, there's a big problem. So it was two weeks go by, now big problem, now we've got to solve this. So what is my operationalized version of this? As soon as a submittal comes in, I don't it is or what I'm doing, you just open the PDF. You graze it and you go, oh, there's not any big problems here. This one looks good. Set it to when you're going to do it the next day in your RFI block. That's great. But at least you opened it, right?

48:04 - Andy
Yeah.

48:04 - Jake Maxey
And then you can identify, oh, there's a huge problem here. This doesn't even match the plans. They sent us the wrong one. This is for another job and they messed it up. Immediately reply, this is the wrong one, send the new one. Then you're stacking these schedule head headaches for your client every time you don't do that. And I even put it right in my proposals. They're like, we're tired of waiting forever. Great. I'm going to do the opposite. You won't wait forever. Submittal and RFI responses happen, right? First touch within 24 hours, and then response time is three days if there's no big deals, and then five days if we've got to work through something. But that's better than the 15 that they're waiting. So it's right in the scope.

48:46 - Andy
Well, and you're in a great spot because you can ask these questions with no baggage right now, like the 40 architects that you asked. I mean, because people don't always love to give you negative criticism, right? Like, I've noticed this, right? And I've got, believe it or not, we haven't always done unreasonable customer service on every job, you know, as you say it. And so there are some clients where maybe they're not happy, right? But it's hard to get feedback from that person about what the unhappiness is because they don't want to say, like, you stink, right? I mean, it wasn't like we, I mean, we designed a safe building, right? But it was some things like this probably, just didn't get back with us soon enough. Or, you know, there was just some headaches with the design and we just didn't really want to use you again. But you're in a great spot where you can listen to those things and hopefully adapt. I mean, and the other thing is- And I will, and dude, nobody doesn't make mistakes.

49:58 - Jake Maxey
Like, I will make mistakes. Of course. But they're just not, this puts me in the best chance not to do that.

50:04 - Andy
And, I mean, hopefully you can build a relationship that when you do make that mistake, that they can share that with you. Like, hey, that was kind of bummy that you didn't come to that meeting when you said you were going to come to all the meetings. Yep.

50:22 - Jake Maxey
And since you've always asked and we've always been open, here's the feedback. Thank you.

50:26 - Andy
Yeah, exactly. And when you get feedback, you can say thank you and everything. So what is going well for NLM? What does that stand for, by the way, if you don't mind my asking?

50:39 - Jake Maxey
That is Never Lose Sight. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The kind of quick back story is wanting to get out of whatever you want to label it, the rat race, whatever, the continual cycle of going to the job, coming home, taxes are paid, You kind of maybe get like a 2% raise the next year and then you put in all this effort and then the building or the business enterprise value is skyrocketing. The wealth generation is skyrocketing. Your paycheck is not great. Your expenses go up. Then you got to like, whatever. I don't want to not do that anymore. Didn't wanna lose sight of where we started and where we came from and what our family history is like and some important things that we shouldn't let go of So I'm gonna play this new game and I'm gonna jump into business and I'm gonna try my damnedest to make it that I'm financially free and having to get a new set of tires on my truck doesn't matter anymore. Do you wanna take a vacation? Yes. Where do you wanna go? Just point on the world and we'll go. Like, I want to be able to do that, but I don't want to lose sight of all the other stuff that makes me who I am. So, that's NLS. There's a different version that I like to joke with people, but I'll save that for the next time I come on the podcast.

52:17 - Andy
Yeah, okay. Sounds good. We'll keep that little nugget out there then.

52:20 - Jake Maxey
I like that.

52:23 - Andy
So, yeah, the question though also was, Thank you for sharing that, but the other question is, what is working for NLS right now?

52:32 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, so what's working really well is, first of all, the community is really receptive. I know why they are, but it's great that they are. What's working in my favor a lot is that the supply of really good electrical PEs is low, and that the demand for them is is extremely high. So that's working very well for me. So my efforts to cold call, cold email, reach out, provide my value statement, and then have it turn into work is, I don't want to say it's easy, but it's like, it's working well. So that's going well. So converting from first search online, new architect, never heard of them, to reach out to getting a job Awesome. The percentages are pretty good, I guess, compared to what I find online as stats. So that's good. And I guess what else is going well? I don't know, man. That's what I've been in, is business development, because that's the constraint. I have started a business. Nobody knows who I am. What is the constraint? That nobody knows who I am. So I have to go So tell them who I am. So that's what I do just hours upon hours upon hours is just reach out. But yeah, getting clients and doing good work has been working out well. And it's kind of like from everything, like the website, emails, calls, LinkedIn, it's just so random. It's just coming in. So I guess I'm happy about that.

54:16 - Andy
Yeah, awesome. Well, keep it up. I mean, you want to keep that going. I Read, there's an author, Jeb Blunt. Have you Read any of his material? Fanatical Prospecting is one.

54:30 - Jake Maxey
OK. Sounds like what I've been doing.

54:32 - Andy
It sounds like you're already kind of on the Fanatical Prospecting camp. But that's a great resource, in my opinion. Oh, the thing I was gonna point out, obviously that's a good resource, but the other thing was, he calls it the 30-90 rule, which you've heard of the 80-20 rule. The 30-90 rule basically says that the 30 days that we're in right now, the efforts that you do for prospecting, you won't really see for 90 days. So if you think about it, like June, you didn't really see the impact of that until like September. Just got that job, and it's like, oh, I didn't really reach out to them until like June or March. And they finally, because you know, there's life cycle of their project, right, and so forth, especially in this world. You know, it's not like we're, you know, you're getting new jobs every single day as an architect. I mean, you're, you know, so their life cycle.

55:33 - Jake Maxey
And your message can come through at just the wrong time.

55:36 - Andy
At just the wrong time.

55:37 - Andy
Oh, there's an email from Jake.

55:38 - Jake Maxey
Delete. Because they just weren't even interested at all. And in fact, one of the clones Why it's like ... Because one of the jobs I just finished was with a client that saw the email and was like, okay, and just forgot about it. And then almost two to three months later was like, oh, I've got this electrical engineering problem now. In my marketing material, it said, we solved this problem for you. And he said, oh, he dug in his email. Oh yeah, it's Jake, and he gave me a call. So it's like that 30-90, it really is. And then the financial impact is even bigger. Further than that.

56:13 - Andy
Yeah, because then you don't get paid for another 90 days, right? That's right. And then you got to chase it.

56:19 - Jake Maxey
And that's the whole reason that I do up front, I go, I do not start work until I have my fee 50% in my bank account. And that doesn't always work, but you start there. You're just like, yeah. And most people are reasonable. They're like, oh, I understand. You're just starting and you need to cover your expenses. And I'm like, yeah, exactly. But it also helps me do the, I can grow the business faster if I'm not waiting for the money.

56:46 - Andy
Right, exactly. I mean, you gotta have cash up front, I mean, in my opinion. Now, you're gonna end up working, you know, some of the games that you have to play to work with the big boys, sometimes you can't always get a deposit.

56:58 - Andy
That's right.

57:00 - Andy
But you gotta decide.

57:02 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, I've already run right into it.

57:04 - Andy
You gotta decide. That game or not. Actually, my most popular LinkedIn post of all time was about that topic. I mean, it went in a firestorm. I lost a job because of that. I was like, I just can't work with you. It was more than that, because I do projects without a deposit, but I'm like you. I prefer, and I request it, and sometimes they say, No, we're just not gonna do it. We're not getting the money, we're not gonna pay you the money. And I'm like, well, let's work anyway, because I really wanna work on this job, and I really like you, and I think this is gonna be a good project. The problem with that particular one was, I didn't really like the guy.

57:49 - Jake Maxey
Well, yeah, because as soon as they decline to give you a deposit, or really it's just a payment up front, if they decline to do that, next level. Well, do I like you? What's your history? What's your reputation? Then you start really digging into that stuff. Because if you get a payment ahead of time, you can do good work because you've gotten the payment. And then you can submit very value-driven work. You've been paid. It's done. And if they don't want to pay the rest of it, at least you've had that 50%. So it just makes the conversation a little different.

58:29 - Andy
Yeah. I mean, you're doing better work for them. You're You're helping them look good. You're doing all those things you said about being unreasonable, et cetera. But you can't do that if you're taking loans out on your 401K.

58:39 - Andy
I mean, come on.

58:40 - Jake Maxey
Right? I only got so much left, people. No, I'm just kidding.

58:44 - Andy
Well, Jake, I've taken up a lot of your time. I do want to ask you, you know, our burning question of the podcast, you know, we want to talk about, you know, you're enhancing the world around you and, you know, why you do what you do. I mean, we've talked a lot about that. I think we've already hit on that a lot. But is there any other ways that you feel like you're enhancing the world around you, like your why statement? Why do you do what you do?

59:12 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, for sure. The Impactful Engineer podcast is one of the best things I've done to enhance the world around me. I think that being able to log into your phone, and as long as you've paid your cell bill, that you can listen to everything that experienced people have to say about what they've seen work, like that's just gold. So I think that's providing a huge service to the podcast. You're doing, like someone's thinking about starting their firm and they listen to this episode and we've had this great conversation around it, that's positive energy around it. Yes, you wanna be real, you gotta be good. Like if I wasn't good, I would have fallen flat on my face. But you shouldn't be letting... I just don't want people to be so scared to take risks and do things. So that's part of my message too. It's like, stop being so afraid of everything and yeah, think about things, but take the steps. Don't let every little thing that everyone else says make you rethink it. Oh, well, did you think about this? And it's like, well, that's... Apparent in your world and that's doing what it's doing for you, but that's not my world and that's not my life, right? So like try to not let things stack on you that other people have to say. I would say like if, you know, when I was perfect example, I'm gonna start my own business. Everybody that is an employee that has never thought about starting their own business has everything to say about what I'm doing. You've never started a business before. Why would I listen to you? You're not doing the thing that I want to do and I'm gonna let you tell me Well what the problems are gonna be and did you think about this? It's like Yeah, I don't want people to be afraid just you know You you are the plan. That's another that's another thing that I can drop is one of the main messages for the podcast is like No one's coming to save you No one's coming to just help you along You are the plan. You're the one that does it.

1:01:21 - Andy
It's your life.

1:01:22 - Jake Maxey
It's your life. You do not want to get to a point where 10 years down the road and you've said all along the way that you're not doing certain things because other people have told you of all the pitfalls and you're listening to their advice and all this stuff. They don't care. They're just telling you. Oh, you're starting a business? Oh, well, congratulations. If there's anything that I could do to help you with that, you just let me know. But like, take a shot. I'm so glad you're gonna do that. Here to help. Like, you're not gonna get a ton of that, right? Right. But even if you do, you take that for what it is. It's like, cool, this person's willing to help and maybe I'll take them up on that. And that makes me feel good. But it's still you. So don't listen to the bad, don't listen to the great. Be inspired where you wanna be inspired, but certainly don't go low because people are trying to pile stuff on you. I don't know if that makes sense.

1:02:28 - Andy
Listen to yourself. I like it. It's good inspiration. I like the podcast, you and your brother. You guys have some good, I mean, I've benefited from it. I'm like, you know, the communication one was really helpful for me. And I try to keep up as much as I can. I can't keep up with all the podcasts these days, but I definitely enjoy it when I listen to it. It's a good one. So everybody listening in, go check out the Impactful Engineer podcast as well. There's a ton of great insights about developing yourself as an engineer and your career and communicating with people. Just stuff that comes up like how to deal with people at the office and just stuff like that I mean, it's just a ton of good information. So And and then yeah, just the risk thing. I just wanted to say this because Maybe there's somebody who's starting their own gig or maybe to you but I mean it I Read another I Read a lot. I mean Dan Miller 48 days to the work you love he wrote a book. It was one of the first ones I Read and about entrepreneurship, another one, No More Mondays, but he talked a lot about we're all entrepreneurs. We're all entrepreneurs. And do you want to have one client, which is your boss, like your company that you work for, if you have a J-O-B, you have one client. That's how many clients you have. And if they fire you, guess what? You have zero clients tomorrow. Now, in your situation, in my situation, we have, you know, I have, I don't know, 100 clients or 50 clients. It depends on the day of the week, I guess. Now, they're not all happy. We talked about that earlier. But if one fires us, guess what? We still got 49 left. You know? I mean, that's the secret of entrepreneurship, that people don't think about, right? So it's actually less, I mean, his point was, it's less risky to be an entrepreneur than to have a J-O-B.

1:04:32 - Jake Maxey
I think so.

1:04:33 - Andy
So anyway, it's a process.

1:04:37 - Jake Maxey
I just, I knew like, if I could say one last thing, I knew that if I completely failed, I could just go back to work. So just some time would have passed. Like, so what was I really supposed to be scared of Like I said, the electrical PEs that know their stuff, there's all the really great ones are locked down and then all the companies still need more of them. So I literally just have to raise my hand and say, you know what? I did this business thing. I learned all these skills from it. Figured out it's really not for me. I'm ready to get back to work. And then I bet you that within a month I'd have a job for more money than when I left.

1:05:18 - Andy
There you go.

1:05:19 - Jake Maxey
And a better sign on package and whatever. I have so much leverage right now. I could demand a team. A division, you know what I mean? I don't know.

1:05:30 - Andy
Yeah, well, yeah, I think you're in a good spot, and I think you've got a good thing going. I like a lot of your ideas as far as business. I've learned a lot from you today just about that. In fact, my banner, by the way, I don't know if you've noticed, but it says, we make architect look good.

1:05:54 - Jake Maxey
There you go.

1:05:55 - Andy
So I like your saying there. Was there anything that I missed today that you wanted to hit on, Jake?

1:06:03 - Jake Maxey
Well, like, all this stuff is not, it's my interpretation of what I've been learning and my experience. It's not me. Like, get out there and learn from books and people. You're not right. You're wrong most of the time. Just go learn. Change your perspective. Use things that are beneficial to you. For so long, all about me independent like I can figure it out if I can't figure it out myself and then it's I'm not worthy of you know learning it from somebody else cuz I know I've stolen it like if you have that mindset and I think a lot of engineers do because I talked to them and I've worked with a lot of engineers go learn man just just this is everything I say What you can do is not, you're standing on the shoulders of the giants before you. Learn, and if, I don't know. I don't know how to be clear with it. Go learn. Go listen to podcasts, Read books, talk to people, gain insights, be open.

1:07:05 - Andy
Well, like your grandfather. I mean, he was designing buildings before you were born.

1:07:12 - Jake Maxey
Well, yeah.

1:07:13 - Andy
Right? And was there anything you could learn from these people before us, right? Always. It's already been done, right?

1:07:21 - Jake Maxey
I know. It's already been done.

1:07:24 - Andy
Why are we reinventing the wheel all the time? Yeah.

1:07:27 - Jake Maxey
And I would say the only last thing that would make your life a lot better if you're looking to improve is when you do learn the stuff, go do it immediately. Take action and do the stuff. Because you can get caught in that loop of just reading and listening and learning and going, that's a great idea. And not putting it into practice. That's like the best thing to do.

1:07:49 - Andy
Yeah, I mean, and not everybody wants to be an entrepreneur, you know? Correct. That's okay, right?

1:07:53 - Jake Maxey
Insert whatever thing.

1:07:55 - Andy
But it still applies. I mean, you still can learn, you can improve, and get better as a person and as an engineer, so. Awesome. Well, Jake, it was great. And by the way, so I think we've said a couple you know, your podcast, how do people get a hold of you, how do they listen to you, et cetera?

1:08:18 - Jake Maxey
Yeah, I mean, by now, searching the impactful engineer podcast gets you right there.

1:08:24 - Jake Maxey
I used to be really active on LinkedIn.

1:08:26 - Jake Maxey
I still am, kind of like creeping and I check it a lot and make comments, but I'm not like posting a whole bunch, but you can always reach me there.

1:08:34 - Jake Maxey
And then just, I mean, I have people reach out and just, I talked to somebody the other day about their in getting into the AC industry and so we talked for a while and cleared some things up and I'll probably end up being a mentor type of person to bounce ideas off of and help them along their way because they want to start their own business.

1:08:55 - Jake Maxey
I'm always open to helping people and if I don't have time, I'll tell you.

1:08:59 - Andy
Yeah, go hit him up.

1:09:00 - Andy
He can help you out.

1:09:02 - Andy
I can help you out if you're in my area of influence, but yeah, he's got a lot of good on that podcast so go check him out appreciate it well Jake it was it was fun having you on I look forward to having you back I'm gonna hear about that story you mentioned and maybe some more driving stories too so plenty plenty more to tap into all right take care buddy thank you hey everybody thanks for listening to today's episode of enhanced and please leave a like subscribe or follow and we'll see you next time Mac, did you want to say anything to the group?

1:09:47 - Mac
Hit the like button and the subscribe button to turn on your notifications.

1:09:49 - Andy
We'll take a picture.

1:09:50 - Andy
We'll do a little.

1:09:54 - Andy
So, yeah, Mac, he's a firefighter.

1:09:55 - Andy
We're going to have him on sometime too, by the way.

1:09:57 - Andy
All right.

1:09:58 - Andy
Thanks, everybody.

1:09:59 - Andy
Take care.