So now what's the preview? So what did you think about the show today, Melon? This was a good episode. liked y'all's chemistry. I liked how y'all started off and it was almost like y'all were in sync with everything you were saying. I thought that was really fun to listen to and just how, you know, it kind of opposite energy usually levels out because you're very uh stern and then it was just fun listening to that. Yeah, their energy helped me to loosen up. So, did you learn anything today? I don't know, it was just fun listening to the whole dynamics of the podcasting and social media and just getting the word out there. I think that the perspective of having a person who has this amazing work, but then they're not known about that work. Their person is not known at all. I think that's just something that's interesting to think about. Podcast episode about podcast A podcast about podcasting. I was sitting over there and I laughing about that. was like, podcast about podcasts. And a lot of ways is true. but what but we learned the value of a podcast, we learned about marketing PR, really just so many different things as far as why maybe somebody might want to get into this realm, but just some other things about marketing and branding that would apply to an AEC company. So would you like to give the intro of who we have on here today? uh Would you like to introduce yourselves? yeah, there you go. I'm Lauren Sleeman. and I'm Carrie Bellag. More from Bran Groupies. Brand Groupies. Awesome. And it was a great episode. and my name is Andy Richardson and this is our producer Madeline and this is the Enhance Podcast. I've been doing this 27 years and I'm still learning so much about people in the AEC industry. join us for this great episode. Let's jump to the intro. Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why. Hey Lauren and Kerry, welcome to the Enhance Podcast. Thanks for having me. So happy to be here. Glad to have you on. this is the first time we met, actually, so I need to figure out who's Carrie and who's Lauren. So uh Carrie, Lauren. All right, awesome. And I'm Andy. I'm a structural engineer, but this is a podcast called Enhance. And I think you know all about that because we've had a few of your clients on here as well. So I want to find out a little bit more about you guys, but I like to start out with like a curveball opener. So, uh Carrie, I'll start out with you first and then Lauren, I'll give you the luxury of getting a chance to figure out what you're going to do. Anyway, so Carrie, uh money is no object and you are able to put a PR stunt. I don't know what the appropriate term is, but you're able to put a PR stunt on for one of your clients. in the AEC industry since we're an AEC podcast. So what would you do? who well i think that music lover and concert go i would i'd probably take them on the road that one of the podcast uh... that our clients and do you maybe take it take it on the road and do some sort of fun music podcast mashup p r stand tour Okay, awesome. I love it. about you? oh Yeah, you know just trying to sort of squeeze out and maximize every single ounce of each opportunity We actually do a big battle of the bands down here in Asbury Park at the Stone Pony which is kind of a legendary place for Bruce Springsteen started out his career so I think you know a road show of some sort for podcasts our podcasting clients has always been Something we thought could be cool to see it on the road go to different regional markets as many of our clients have grown international brands Yeah, awesome. Well, that's very appropriate for the brand groupies. Yeah. Yes. It's Awesome. So, ah got a few questions here. So I wanted to ask, and you guys can just, and this is, I haven't done a lot of two people on, so this is a little unique, but I'm learning how to do that. So you guys can just drop in as you feel fit. What pulled both of you into, uh marketing for the AEC industry and today for the purpose of this, I think that includes real estate for you guys, but I'm going to say that's the AEC industry at large. But what pulled you into this industry in terms of marketing? What made you decide to do that? That's a good question. Lauren and I both have fashion PR backgrounds, so it was an interesting pivot and I think um it was a turning point nine years ago when we landed a major New York City-based architecture firm and started helping out with their social media and eventually their PR. and saw such a gap in the market. So, so much opportunity when you were to compare the AEC industry with the industry like fashion that we were used to being so far ahead, two seasons ahead. And we just saw this opportunity to kind of catch up with where the other industries were going and what was kind of more cutting edge in the communications and marketing realm. Yeah, Lauren, did you have anything to add to that? Yeah, I always say, you know, this industry is a bit different. It's funny when I look back at my life, I actually grew up in this industry. My mom's an interior designer. My grandfather owned an asphalt company that obviously serviced the built world. And my dad worked in roads and construction in Pennsylvania as well. And, you know, we learned so much from these big global fashion brands. And what we came to learn when I joined Carrie several years ago in the business was that Many businesses in the AEC world are not, they don't treat their public persona in the same way that we were so used to with the fashion brand. So putting the stories and the faces behind the brands out there was first and foremost at the very forefront of all the marketing strategies in the fashion world. So it's been really fun to approach a more traditional industry and really start to shake things up with brands that are leading in a really visionary way. So you said that they didn't consider the persona of the customer in this industry. What do mean by that? Well, actually not the customer, more their own persona. So when you think about, let's say, an architecture firm or an engineering company, how are they shaping the narrative for the people that are following and watching and considering doing business with them? So we actually subscribe to a philosophy by a marketing guru that we really admire named Mark Schaefer. And he wrote a book called Known. And the philosophy behind the book is that If you can be known in your industry, when you walk in a room, people know what you do and how you do it, how you differentiate yourself from your competitive set, you're much more likely to win the business. And so that's really the philosophy that we've led with as we've started to shape our clients' brands. We've been at this for a decade. Yeah, I mean that makes sense. You, I've always heard that you buy from who you know. If you can be known, then you've won the battle, right? I mean that makes sense. Yeah. I'll give you a great example, Andy. A few summers ago, and I were on a podcast. Talk about practicing what you preach. We were on someone in the AAC World's podcast. a uh few weeks after that podcast episode launched, we received an inquiry from a Boston architecture firm, one of the top five in Boston. And the woman was one of the partners in the firm. And she said, I listened to So and So's podcast, and I'd love to chat with you about how you might be able to help our firm. So we got on a call, and Carrie and I did what we normally do on those types of calls. We started telling our story and how we do things, and she stopped us. She cut us off after the first two sentences. She was like, no, no, no. I already know what you do and how you do it. That's why we're talking today, because I really like your approach, and I really want to tell you more about what we do. So it's kind of like the proof is in the pudding. That's what we often say to clients or even potential clients. Yeah, that's pretty incredible that the impact of that podcast had. And you mentioned story. That is a polarizing term that I've seen on social media lately, especially in this uh AEC realm, because I'm trying to think of how to say this. But you probably know what I'm saying. mean, the AEC industry is kind of buttoned up, right? So this idea of a story. um Do you feel that there's problems with maybe it resonating with the AEC industry? Well, some of our executives have their own, you know, angles, their own approach, and we try to really get down to the bottom of what really makes them them and identify their wow factors because everyone is different and original. So we want to make sure that when we tell their story and podcasting and however we do it that they're authentic and they do it in their style, you know, even though they might be, you know, more reserved or introverted, we kind of find what sets them apart and what they can talk to. So it's really authentic and they're telling a really uh organic story, not trying to be someone who they're not. Yeah, and I love that because that's the counterpoint to this idea that the story is some kind of ah weird hippie thing, right? It's just telling who you are. So if you're buttoned up, then you know what? That's your story, kind of. there's probably a reason for that, because we're dealing, for us engineers, for example, we're dealing with some pretty serious stuff. I don't want to necessarily show a brand of Brand groupies might not be a good fit for me, right? But it's a great fit, probably a great fit for you, which I want to get into that a bit. uh So uh any other feedback on that idea of story? Yeah, you I wanted to chime in because I, your question was, you know, is there hesitancy in the industry about what we're doing? And I would say, yeah, I would say in fact, we only really match with our clients if they're already doing something super disruptive. I think the more traditional brands don't necessarily understand us or they don't have a line item in their budget for us. So I often use the analogy from our fashion days. You know, our fashion clients would pay us before they pay their rent. They knew that the number one way to sell their clothes or their bags or their jewelry was to be known to tell their story to be at the forefront of, know, WWD and all of the different, you know, Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. And in this industry, it's quite the opposite. You know, there's a lot of people that haven't really considered how that storytelling narrative can impact. business development. And so I think it tends to be, you know, a longer sales cycle. we have a pretty good sense now when we have that first conversation with a company, whether we'd be a good fit for one another, you know, if there's, if they're kind of open to sort of trusting and, and seeing us as disruptors to the industry and sort of looking at what we've done in the past with our clients and how, how well known they are. It's interesting too, think as the Gen Z'ers become more and more of the employees in the AEC industry, what we've noticed is a lot of them are scoping out potential employers on social media channels. So rather than turning to the website the way they used to, one of our three services is social media. And the narrative that you're telling on that social, the way that you're bringing your company culture to life, very much helps to attract the next generation. of employees. Yeah, so it's not just about creating new work, it's also about hiring. And that's a big challenge uh right now for a lot of people. mean, and retention, which if you can't retain them, you need to be able to hire them. And they become very expensive if you can't retain them. need to replace them and onboard them. You know, it's a whole cycle. So that's a different ways of looking at the impact. oh So you mentioned uh like disrupting disruptors and What types of thing what do you mean by that and what types of things do you look for in terms of? I think, for example, you have your own podcast, so that's pretty cool. You're already doing things a little bit differently. um But I think disruptors are people who really think um outside the box. A lot of our clients are part of the YPO, the Young Presidents Organization. They have coaches, and they're held accountable for growing and scaling businesses, and they're visionaries. What's next? Technology. um lot of our clients are really at the forefront of technology and innovation, and so they're just doing things that haven't been done in decades in the industry. Yeah, okay. um And your clients are mostly architects or is it a combination of? Yeah, we have a combo. have architects, interior designers, real estate professionals. So, you know, it runs the gamut, but that's a lot of the AEC industry. uh however, we do manage podcasts, which Lauren will talk about, and we can work with any industry for podcasting. Okay. How are we doing on our podcast so far? Awesome! You're it! Yes! Totally! Yeah, she did. It's not easy navigating two people. Yes. No, no, no. I mean, I appreciate that. Yes. General, like what I mean, you can. What's the word? Trash me, I guess. You're doing it. You get it. get it. Yes, for sure. And then using the content in a really impactful way. we kind of look at everything that we do as content, right? So we have three services, public relations, podcasting, and social media. And the PR, right, the press that we get for our clients all turns up on social media and gets slowly pulsed out to start educating people in that way. And then we do manage podcasts for many of our clients. And as Kerry mentioned, when we manage a podcast, that can be for an array of leaders from all sorts of industries. So we work with the Carpenters Union in the Northeast. They have a podcast that we manage. We work with an education podcast. We just started working with a sports memorabilia uh dealer who just started a podcast with us last month. And so we really run the gamut and we keep it a really light lift for our clients. So we do everything from helping them name and brand the podcast to book the guests, write the scripts, and then cut all the content up after we launch it so that they can pulse it into their existing social media strategy. Yeah, so that's a big variety of organizations and companies doing podcasts. what I mean, I know what my opinion is, but I want to know your opinion is, I mean, it's why should somebody do a podcast? mean, I've got architects, engineers, contractors, and obviously people listening in from over the fence. But why should people that are business owners start or maybe is maybe an employee that why should they start a podcast? Well, as Lauren coined the term, it's really the modern approach to networking. As you know, I mean, after this episode, we feel like we've had this intimate conversation with you and I could call you up and say, Hey, Andy, what do you think? Do you know anyone in this profession you could introduce me to or, you know, do business together? there's that. um I guess saying that nobody says no to being on a podcast. always say if you have a potential client you want to win, you ask them to be a guest on your podcast. Next thing you know, you can follow up the week after and say, it so great to have you. Let's meet for coffee. And it just really is great networking. Yeah, it levels your relationship up into really fast tracks, as opposed to standing in a room the old school way, you know, a networking event where you're walking around shaking hands, handing out business cards. ah I definitely think it's a, it's the way that we approach it is it's also not only relationship building, but then it's also content. So you end up with this content. Carrie started our Brand Groupies podcast back in 2018 in the early days of podcasting. So she's an OGer. And we have so much content from the last several years that we can always go back and revisit, repurpose, use on our social channels, reference in a monthly newsletter, and use on our website too. Yeah, and that's a great reason right there. I to be able to have something to talk about, which is back to kind of like the PR side too. I mean, you can talk about, and I would think PR, what does that, maybe what is PR traditionally and what is that currently in 2026? That's such a good question because it's changed so much. started in 2001. Carrie started a little bit before that in the PR days. Back then, there were so many earned media opportunities and there still are. However, one thing that is a bit different about the traditional approach to PR is um there could be a longer cycle to actually receive a result. The cool thing about podcasting is uh most podcast hosts are not full-time podcast hosts. Most of them, it's a side hustle. and oftentimes it's a business driver for whatever their core job is. So years ago we developed a separate service under our PR umbrella called a podcast media tour. And it's actually a play on an old school technique in uh PR that was called a satellite media tour. So our podcast media tour, the PMT, is something where we partner with leaders and we help to secure podcast interviews on their behalf each month. really broaden their network through an interview that they can do from their desk for an hour once or twice a month. And then we cut all the content up very similarly to the way we would if we were managing your own podcast. And then they can pulse that out. And the halo effect that it has is really giving your audience the perception that you're everywhere, whether you are or you're not. And I'll give you a really great example. We worked with a company and within the first few years of them starting that company, didn't really have many projects behind the scenes. But we were very active on the PR and the social side, booking the leader and the face of the company on podcast interviews. The perception was the company was on fire publicly. Behind the scenes, it was a bit of a different story, but you never would have known that. And that was the whole strategy behind us. It really helped to fuel them winning more projects because Like I said, the public persona was that they were everywhere and they were being interviewed by all these people across the country and they must be doing all these innovative things and we can't wait to meet with you and talk to you and learn and then hire you. it's one of our other services that we offer. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, that's exciting, too. I that's one of the reasons I got into this is... actually, it was the content for me because I wanted to put the content out there and it was an idea of... Well, they ask you answer. Have you heard of that one? So, I mean, that's a bit of an old school blogging uh idea. I mean, it's not that old, but it's a bit old school. But anyway, it was the idea of people ask questions and then you answer it and you write a blog about it and so The problem is by the time that so by the time that I would like figure out hey We need to write about this and the team the marketing team would say well, what do we write about? It's technical so we have to you know have a conversation about it and and then also it doesn't really like we could talk about engineering all day long, but that doesn't necessarily It's not exciting for architects necessarily. mean, they can only learn about being, I mean, they need to understand some of this stuff. They can only take so much. Why don't I interview, why don't I, you know, and then I said, well, they're not going to come in and interview me. But then I don't know where I got the idea or maybe it was listening to somebody like you guys. And it was like, okay, do a podcast and they will, they will interview me. Yes, that's right. Absolutely. And you can get the transcript. You know, there's so much, right? Each episode can be turned into a transcript, which could be turned into a blog post. And then you can post on your website. Like I said, you could pulse it out each month in a monthly newsletter and share, know, if you're launching one episode a month, all of our podcasts actually rank in the top five to 10 % globally. And again, you know, sometimes we meet with people who are thinking about doing a podcast and they're like, well, how many people listen on, you know, Apple podcasts or Spotify? And we cannot underscore enough how important it is to put it out on social, right? Because the views and when you, you know, co-promote something, we'll co-promote this video, you can tag us, and then we'll co-promote it together. And the exposure that you get to those audiences on social is incredible. And back in the day when Carrie started Fran Groofy's podcast, uh there was no video, right? It just used to be audio content. But now every podcast for the most part is video. So now, Another service that we've added on over the years is each of our podcasts. We encourage them to put it on, to have us do it for YouTube as well, because YouTube is one of the top channels these days for podcasts. Yeah, I saw that. In fact, the research I did is it is the highest. It's not even close, actually. It's, yeah, 35%. And then, you know, of course you have Apple and Spotify trailing. people also love the YouTube shorts. So the way that we work is we record audio and video just like you are right now. And then we use those social media clips and we post them as the YouTube shorts. So that helps with the algorithms as well. Yeah, so Jessica we got to get going on that Sorry Jessica. I mean, I think that's one of our our goals but yeah, it's just you know, it there's always 11 things to do Oh yeah And it's always changing and it's a lot of work. That's why one of our clients had us on a podcast at a conference. They spoke with us on stage. They invited us to be on stage and our client sat in front of 500 people. They make me feel like a celebrity. I show up, I sit in the chair, I read the script, I interview our guests and then I go back to my job and they kind of do the rest and make me look good. It's a lot of work. It's taking us years, I think, to get our process down. um But it is, yeah, it's a lot of different steps and making sure you really squeeze out every ounce of And it's always changing. And it's always changing, yes. Now, you said you had your top 5 to 10 percent. What's the secret to getting to that point? Oh, you know the thing. You just have to be posting, right? It's like any other algorithm. You need to be posting a new episode at least once a month. And the more frequently you post episodes, the more listeners you'll have, the better your algorithm will work for you. So most of our clients launch one a month or every three weeks, right? We work with lots of businesses in the B2B space, right? But I have friends that launch a podcast every single week and they're their numbers are really great because they're the beast, right, every single week with a new episode. But I think if you can goal to have at least, you know, one episode launching per month, and then also just look at it as a long-term strategy, right? We've had people come to us sometimes and say, can we do a podcast for three months or six months? And that's not really how it works. And in fact, what's the carry about podcast making? yeah, think it's like 70 % or something after six months. Stop. You know, they get it going and then they just don't continue. Mm-hmm. So it seems like there's a lot of podcasts, but there's not a lot of active podcast posting. And where would one start? I other than just, I guess they could just call you, right? Yeah, think, you know, it sets us apart, I think, is we are one-stop shop from, you know, booking the guests, writing the script, even with our PR backgrounds, just really finding those key timestamps in the social clips and making sure that, um you know, we're tagging the right people that are going to share it. I mean, there's so much strategy, I guess you could say, behind it and with a PR mindset. Yeah, okay. ah Now what if they just wanted to kind of do a homegrown version of it? Is that possible? Yeah, yes. I think good lighting is key. Having a great mic, strong Wi-Fi, you know, the basics. And then again, just starting to be really consistent with it and tapping into social as much as you can, I think, is the way to start really getting some visibility. Yeah, okay. And is there any parallel situations to podcasting that maybe, like I'm just really not into this idea of podcasting. Is there anything parallel to that that we could just do and maybe it's not once a month, it's just every now and again I got this killer idea for a guest and I just, I don't know, wanna do that. How would you approach that? I mean you can always do like a social media series, you know, maybe brand a series, a name, right, a little sit down with Andy or something clever, and you could always record, do a video and ask a few questions and do kind of short snippets as a video series on social it still has the live option as well. live. I mean, if you're comfortable having a live chat, can also invite someone to be on your LinkedIn and do a LinkedIn live. And you can also, they don't have to be live, so you can also pre-record it, but then lead and tease it a little bit, and then act like it's going to be live and launch it. And really, going back to the, why should we do this? It's because of those three reasons, right? The PR, the, what were the other two reasons? Well, content, networking. content. Oh, I legacy. Yeah, like I interviewed two important family members before one of them got dementia, you know, and it's like it'll always be there and we think it's so key. It would be great for multi-generational businesses, especially in the AEC industry. You see the next generation and how, what's the succession plan and have that. you know the the data the grandpa who found her grandmother founded the company years ago uh... how did they started hear their story and that will live forever for employees decades down the road and we just think that is just something so special for for legacy Fitch it a few times. We'll see. going to say yes someday. That's been a big selling point for me a few times because I had one architect, he said, well, I got enough work. Yes. I don't need that. said, you you've got so much knowledge. Yes. We need to get that knowledge out there and share it. And another guy was Robert Deloach. So you can listen to it. He was a World War II. And he's like 94 years old and he was an engineer. So, and he was on last spring and I think he's older than that. He's pushing a hundred. So oh anyway, so, but that was the, I wanted to get his leg. I wanted to get this on film, you know? And that was exciting actually to that information. That was the only reason I did that one for me. And I mean, obviously it's entertaining for people, but felt like that needed to get on record somewhere. You always have that to go back and reference. I think you can get kind of creative. Over the years, we had one client whose firm escaped from the 9-11 towers. And we, one of the 9-11 anniversaries, he interviewed the man that was running the firm at the time. And they did a really intimate, intense conversation reflecting back on what that was like. that was... really special and we've also done projects where we brought whole project teams, one of the biggest oh projects in New York City in Times Square, had lots of different partners over the course of seven years working on it. We did a round table with all of them and we've done, yeah, we've done, they were engineering, you know, we've done podcasts from events, big events too. So it's the kind of thing that you can really get creative with too. And it doesn't have to be the same every single episode even. Yeah, awesome. So let's say I'm ready to do this, right? But I'm pretty conservative. I mean, I'm a conservative president of an architectural engineering or construction company. How do you convince me to get behind the mic and share my personal story? That's a good question. we really do something called a brand discovery session where we bring you and any other stakeholders to the table and we really dissect um your background, your core values, um and really get to know you as a person. And we find something that sticks out that is something you might not even realize that makes you so special. And we might stick with that and find a cool angle that you know, would really lead and fuel the questions, the name of the podcast, and we can definitely make it happen. We don't, I don't think we try to convince people we're talking to too much though. Do know what I mean? Like if they're not feeling it, it probably isn't going to work. know what I mean? So it's like, but if they're there, we can help them get there. We found that we can't really, you know, like it's kind of like you get it or you don't. You can be a little hesitant. Those are always our favorite clients. They're not dying to be in the spotlight. But you know, they kind of see the value in how it can help their organization stand out from the competition. Yeah, or maybe they co-host it with someone who's maybe more dynamic or extroverted and you know, a co-host like a guest co-host could jump on and we, you know, find what makes sense for ultimately oh for the business. You know, it is marketing for the Each one's a little different. We just launched the Sports Memorabilia podcast and he has incredible stories about Babe Ruth and Luke Garragh and you know, somebody finding a bat that was, you Luke Garragh's and he starts each episode with a story. He's a really great storyteller. And so we have another podcast that has a different co-host for every single episode. So that's a different approach to take to it. So I feel like just making it your own and sort of leaning into whatever feels comfortable for the host is the best way to make it, you know, really stand out. Awesome. It sounds like you're able to really find that unique aspect of every customer, every client you're working with. uh you must be passionate about what they're doing. And that's the PR brain. think that's where we're looking for the PR angles. Oftentimes what comes out of that brand discovery session that Kerry was talking about is really the elevator pitch. How we describe our clients then when we're moving forward and how we encourage people in their company to just start to describe them too. So that's the fun part for us. What are your wow factors? Yeah, okay. So next question is, what's the difference between being a great architect and being a great industry, excuse me, a visible industry leader? So what's difference between being a great architect and being a visible industry leader? Hmm I guess you could be both, and I think putting yourself out there, and maybe your philosophies about how you approach architecture, and talking through your projects, and talking about your team and your leadership style um can add a lot of credibility to you and really help to raise your personal brand. Yeah, and inspire others. think if you're a great architect, we want to know how'd you get there? And then um really inspire people coming up in the ranks. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it sounds like, you know, just that goes back to the idea of the story too. just that's kind of authentically and organically share who you are as a leader, you know, but would you say just, I mean, I think we've already talked about this a little bit in terms of just putting yourself out there in these different media aspects, whether it's podcasting or being on stage perhaps um that gives you a sense of being a leader. Would you agree with that? definitely as practicing as so you know if i'm to go back to their first season and i can even listen to myself now i had you know yet i talk too much i didn't listen enough and you know it's practice makes perfect yeah uh... we've met trainers who work with them and they get addicted to podcasting. It's fun. They love to talk. and it's strategic right as you start to pick the guests right now you like who who has a a network that you'd like to be exposed to our would they be open to collaborating when you know you go to co-promote the episode when it launches so uh... you know and there's fun angles to carry out a great idea a few years ago we know a gen zee expert is written seven books on the topic and he came on to an architecture podcast and talked about how by twenty thirty thirty percent of the workforce it's gonna be gen zee kind high. how to hire them, how to treat them, what types of things they're looking for as an employer. And it was a different kind of episode because it didn't have anything to do with architecture. But it had everything to do with how to run the firm. Yes. Yeah, it's super important because earlier one of the biggest challenges is hiring. Yeah, you need to understand this generation. Yeah, sounds like Add that one to my list Yes. Okay. Sounds pretty interesting. I love that topic, like the different generations. Sure. I mean, know a lot. It can get heated too because it's like, what? That's a stereotype. I'm not like that. Sure. But it's like, well, yeah, but it's kind of true. know it's kind of Yeah Approach it through the lens of education, right? You want to learn and you want to be, you know, attractive to this next generation who might think through some things differently than you do. I think it's really having that open-minded approach. So what was one of the biggest insights of that, Jen, Z, since we brought this topic up? Oh, I know. think, you know, we always talk about our career journeys, how, you know, we slept, I slept at the office, your own stories, like crazy, you know, crazy working and you know, it's, it's hard almost, you have to meet them where they are not all the way, but you know, kind of understand they're not going to uh... i don't know not have that balance of in life like i don't think when we worked in fashion we had zero harmony in our life and they care about wellness and you know you get leaving the office going home to enjoy their life i mean there's something to be said about that but i think just meeting them where they are knowing that you know you can't make them gen x yeah And we can learn from them. And we can learn. uh It's their way. And just so I'm clear, mean, this is like 20-somethings basically right now. That's general. So I'm thinking about that. I've got a couple kids in that zone too. do we. We have a lot of things in that range. So we can speak from personal experience. Totally. Yeah, and actually, so I think we have a little bit familiar, um Lauren, a little bit um in common. So we both have six kids. my god, stop it. I almost never meet anyone with... I know, right? Everybody say it's a lot of people to think about every day. Yeah, I was looking at your... um But what's your breakdown of your... they're every two years from 13 to 23. They're about to flip to the next one. So what about you? and the boy-girl Oh, there's two boys and four girls. Okay, wow. Well, except we have one girl who's my producer. that's Jessica! Well, Jessica's the podcast manager. Madeline does the producer. we do a preview. Actually, I was going to do something a little bit different on this one. Are you ready to come in? Yeah, I'm going to bring her in. Yeah. was thinking because I heard you laughing at each other said my gosh he has chemistry with Madeline No! Yeah, so she's putting her Michael maybe she's um 18 tomorrow Oh, happy birthday! Oh, you're a pacifist! My son was... Hi, nice to meet you. I know, my son turned 17 two days ago, the third. The 12th. Are you a senior? Uh, yes ma'am. Aww, Do you know where you're going to school or what are you doing? Not yet. Yeah, all right, we're gonna look in South Carolina some schools Okay. Yeah. So, I'm sorry we got a little bit off track there. We'll have to wish her a happy birthday if you don't mind. Yeah, of course! birthday! She's totally embarrassed now, but. I don't uh Yeah, so since we're on this topic, let's go ahead. So I have one girl and five boys. Oh, okay. 11 to 26. Actually, I a granddaughter. No way! That's sweet. Oh, I was going to bring her into maybe, do you have any questions? I didn't have any questions, but this was such a fun episode to listen to. What are you looking to study? I want to go into graphic design after I graduate. Oh, awesome. For you. uh I wanted to transition a bit to some maybe some advice from Madeline on two fronts one personal branding You know, she's eight she'll be 18 tomorrow. So what are some things as basically I don't know is that Gen Z or is that the next is that Gen Z. You're still Gen Z. I think that is should be like on the back end. My younger brother. oh A very young Gen Z-er, but what are some advice, what are some tips for somebody in Gen Z that would, for personal branding? So let's start with that. Yeah, it's such a good question and it's funny. get approached, I think like once a week, I do calls with, you know, students looking to get, you know, full-time jobs and it's tough out there, but I always say, especially if you're in graphic design, I'm sure if you have a portfolio or something to show your work, even if you were to get onto LinkedIn and start posting your work, no matter um what you're doing right now, if you're heading up a club or you're doing art for the school paper any sort of clover anything you could even do a post about it and just a kind of uh... go that that route into the graphic design and and arden and start telling that story and also uh... nailing down your your personal brand but i think it you can't start too early on linkedin and but we can we get resumes that will get just a resume and people say like see attached we would love to see a portfolio or a video saying hi i'm madeline i really love graphic design so passionate about it and and just need share who you are and uh... we'd love to see see that Yeah, we just had somebody pitch us to be on our podcast, actually someone we really admire who's an incredible storyteller from Australia. And she was launching a new brand and she sent us a link to a video and she showed us the new website and she scrolled through all of it. But it was her down on the bottom narrating this, which made it so personal. It was such a cool way to share herself. you we do have a sometimes we hire for social media positions and it would be so great in the when we just get the resume to see a portfolio of the types of work that they can produce that we can see if it's sort of on brand for our vision for our clients and the design aesthetic matches up. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been, like, I've recently got into like all the Instagram posting and I'll do like, super often, but when I have free time to make art or content, I'll be like, let's add this on there. And then other than that, I'm not really. Yeah, or offer for, you know, to do whatever for any clubs or sports teams or local something to say, hey, can I, you know, maybe help out with your social or a nonprofit or something that you can do that doesn't take too much time, but to show you're building, you know, a brand for someone that might be local that you can just start getting in front of people. Yeah, there's a cool company here that does drone drone videos of construction projects. And I noticed on their Instagram page, they're offering to do the first drone fly through for free. And I thought that was such a nice way, know, it can't probably cost them too much to throw a drone up in the air and then, you know, like run it through your project, but you end up with some great content, you get to test them out, you know, and it just sounded to me like such a great. If you're thinking about a company that's working on 40 projects right now and you offer to shoot one of them just to get your foot in the door, that was kind of an interesting way to approach it. That'll get your wheels turning a bit. Yeah, that's great advice. So personal branding and then, yeah, she's a bit, she's an artist. She both does this for the caterer and also, you know, these, these are beautiful art meetings that she does, but Yes, yeah So if anything we can do to she likes to a bath too, I you can tell. I love that. Or even for your company, there's any opportunity to your dad. or help, you know. oh Yeah. Yeah, so she's the she's the producer and I that was part of the idea was when I was I said, you know, I'm very straight laced. So I was like, need to I need to spice this up. Help at the beginning. We know that we know that the beginning of the podcast, you got to hook them in. Right. So I had somebody that could help add some bubbly to the front end. might be good. Yeah, definitely. Oh, it's awesome. And even like art, mean, as far as video, you know, like the video clips you could add in, you know, the text and the photos of projects and you can get really creative. yeah carries our creative she's she's super creative she's has both sides of the brain now and she loves loves looking at you and and yet it's fun, but you know, um anything that you work on would be nice to have for people to see. Yeah, awesome. Thanks for the feedback for her on that. Best of luck, your last day of being a... A minor. A minor. Oh, but I love that. That's really exciting. That's so cool. That's luck. And you can follow up with us if you want Yeah, definitely. It's funny, I'm navigating colleges. My son, he's a junior, but he's an art guy. He's a Lego guy. And, you know, just trying to figure out we're going to some art schools, but then liberal arts, traditional colleges to visit. And it's hard to figure out, right? Which route? and so Yeah, it definitely is hard to navigate that, especially since lot of the bigger art colleges are so expensive. Yes, I know, know. Yep, they are and you really want that, you know, return on investment. After school. yeah, I'm going to see SCAD. Okay, that's right across the river. uh Awesome, we hear it's beautiful. But again, we're, you know, New Jersey, so I don't know how far he's going to feel comfortable going but. Just a really- Oh, okay. cool. Yeah, it's really exciting So I want to kind of You can just hang out here for a minute. Okay And then we're gonna try one other uh Different thing that we don't normally do if that's okay. I guess seem like I figure you guys we're good. We're up. We're for anything. like an intro for the beginning after we dropped into the show, and so think you wanted to test it out with a different kind of vibe. We're going to let you guys, this will be the first time we'll let you guys see what the preview is like. It's just a different idea. anyway, that being said, I want to circle back on some things that I skipped over earlier about understanding because you're a back, both have background in luxury brands, ah know, like Gucci and Burberry. don't even know what that is exactly. So I know what Gucci is. So they're known, right? Gucci's known, but Burberry not as much. But how does that idea, and again, either way, both of you had background in this. So how does that idea of selling luxury items translate into selling a building or selling your work as an architect or engineer? I think the training was really intense as far as the fashion industry and you know what I took away is making sure that everything was 360 degrees right so when I first landed the um architecture client I said my gosh you're amazing out there but your social media is not matching your brand your maybe your website or the people that you know we're part of the firm and it's really that three hundred sixty degree branding making sure that every single touch point is on brand and i think we are working with global fashion uh... brands i i personally worked with a lot of licenses like gucci watches and uh... who blow watches and you really had to follow brand guidelines so that everything was down to the detail. Like we're watching the love story of Carolyn Bissette and at Calvin Klein she's like, are your black paper clips? I worked with Calvin Klein and you had to have black paper clips. You could not have silver or white. Like down to the water in the vase had to be a certain amount. just that attention to detail, it's almost a curse because I think just applying that and making sure that every touch point a customer has is just really on brand. Consistent. Yup, 360. Wow, okay. And do you find that architecture companies and AEC companies have that same type of thought process? I that when they approached their, think what Carrie identified nine years ago when she started working with our first client in AEC was that there was a disconnect between the work that the company was doing. So they were doing really high quality, high level, very design-y work. However, it wasn't reflected publicly. So on their social media channels, right, which is really the only glimpse other than the website that people in the public get into your brand, right, is what you're putting out on social. it's my understanding back then that you were on a quest to make those two match, so that to really level up the social so that there was consistency across what the brand was producing internally and what everyone was seeing externally. yes even email signatures i mean you know it's always the voicemail i remember calvin klein had a proud woman with a sexy british accent and i think you know i down to that is every detail so i mean that's extreme fashion but i think you know that lauren said the high-end design you know and you have and then you have like no quality social you know how do you have that trust in that architects and that they're going to deliver when their representation is lower quality. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. On the other hand you have You have this brand groupies brand that has a really fun Persona to it which maybe isn't as buttoned up or tightened up is like black paper clips Yeah, that kind of feel right? Okay, just use whatever play paper clip you want. It's just That's what I get the sense of this I mean am I wrong here or yeah Yeah. know the episode that I know my gosh, that's so funny. Well, it's funny because we've evolved brand groupies. We used have Red Lips and Rock and Roll and then as we really dove into commercial real estate and you know, we landed in that area, we kind of, you know, made our brand a little bit more corporate, but we still have that fun edge. That's who we are. Yeah, you gotta keep your oh story. Yes, of course. Yes. um So I want to ask some just a little bit more about your personal your stories um and So Lauren you mentioned your you had some family back there you have some background in construction with your family Which part of Pennsylvania was that by the way? So I grew up in a tiny little town called Wyoming, Pennsylvania. I was born in the Poconos. My grandfather owned a company called Evans Asphalt, which both my parents worked there. And my mom still has an interior design studio. She has for many, many decades. She still works. She's like a energizer bunny. And uh my dad worked for Pennsylvania government, working in Rhodes for many years too. Okay, so that part of Pennsylvania and um So moving to a fashion was that was that a big bit of a culture shock for you? for me so you know it's funny i landed in fashion because of carrie's so i went to college with her sister and i was communications major and we would go and visit carrie during your fashion week she was already working in the fashion PR industry which i didn't really know much about i always loved fashion but i didn't know much about it that that industry specifically existed because i'm where i grew up and We'd go and visit her and I ended up following her footsteps, which is really funny that many, many, many, years later ended up working together. Circle. But now you're back in construction. Now, yes, never really was in construction. was just like living amongst people that were in that industry. There is also work in construction. Yeah, it's a long history. I guess I was bound to end up here. Yeah. But again, bringing through that fashion line. feel like I'm not, you know, wasn't probably bringing more of my mom's interior design lens than traditional. Yeah, that's awesome. And then Carrie, ah so you founded Brand Groupies and Carrie, I'm sorry Lauren, you kind of help scale it and grow it what it is today. um How did you manage this shift to this boutique company to what you are today? and I think when I founded Brand Groupies, was really noticing a lot of these companies weren't, um they weren't maximizing their marketing spends and I wanted to help them and I was so excited. I was almost more passionate about their brands than they were. Biggest cheerleader. And while working with entrepreneurs was a passion early on, um I ended up, I just from working internationally in the city. My standards were so high that I really felt like I belonged more with corporate companies because I could add so much from the corporate uh experience. then Lauren started uh six, seven years ago with the company. And I think we realized, all right, we're going to do this. It wasn't just me with freelancers. We both need to make good salaries. We need great, healthy, clients and we want to grow the team and to do that we really we need into new york city clients who really got it got the value of p r and social media and now of course podcasting and to really uh... you know worth i guess city i would say that mindset mind we've been trained in new york it was that it just meant we really don't know that is such a differentiated and we naturally sort of jived better Yeah, that get it. Yes, exactly. So I just, I felt like it was important to dig into some of your, you know, your personal story a bit and especially given our conversation earlier and is there anything else about your stories maybe that you wanna share? I've got your bios here but is there anything else maybe that you think might be important? Really amazing questions Awesome. Well, Jessica helped me out here a lot. uh Thanks, Jessica. We're usually the ones behind the mics. Yeah. We can relate. Yes. Yeah, just a couple more and then we can wrap this up. But uh I do want to get a sense of what you think maybe some trends are coming up in social media and so forth with regards to our industry, the AEC industry. What are some trends we should be looking at in terms of marketing and social media, et cetera? Especially with your background, we would want to know what your opinion is on that. and Yeah, I think for our for our company, we're really seeing the you know, we've talked so much about it today, but the podcasting space for sure. It's not going away. I think more and more companies are realizing the impact of, you know, needing to have high quality content and whether you're doing, you know, a video series or you're using the podcast for your content fuel, telling the stories and being able to control the narrative, right, to for your company. So many companies are decades old and maybe they were known for one thing and as they've evolved they're frustrated maybe that they're not winning business in certain sectors because people just keep coming back to them for what they started out doing and they don't know that they do so many new things and so I think using it as an education platform. That's what we're seeing either between the podcast media tour or our podcast management services as our biggest areas of growth in our company. Yeah. Awesome. think it can be universal across the industry for other companies. Yeah, so it sounds like I'm on the right track with you. I'm close to LinkedIn thing every day. Everything. Great! what? Yeah, it's fun. like, I mean, for me it's fun. know, I- It's good that it comes naturally. It's very unique. know, most people just watch on LinkedIn. Most people, right? Yes. So kudos. That's fantastic. It's one of those eye-opener, I think that would be maybe a tip I would say is it was an eye-opener for me because I enjoy writing anyway. um And so it's almost like an alternate ego. just, you know, I'm not a different guy, but I just, I express myself a little differently. Even through this, I mean, after this today, I'll be wiped out. oh I know we do too. It's just so much, it's fun. It really is fun and to meet new people and engage and it's great. What other tips do you have? What's one tip that companies, even me, can listen to and adapt? uh An actionable tip that we can take today and follow it. I think um we're already doing it, I guess, identifying potential clients that you might want to have as a guest. And the consistency, think, with LinkedIn, if you're already doing that, that's fantastic. Also outbound engagement on LinkedIn, commenting. Sometimes that even is as effective as posting, because your name's showing up and you're engaging. Yeah, and I think the last thing I would say is just really thinking of the faces of your company as um it's really their personal brand, right? So people, like you said earlier, do business with people. So the more familiar and authentic and human you can be from afar, the more likely you are, I think, to engage and potentially do business with others. Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks for those tips. So um we really haven't gotten to the main question. I we really have to build up because this is called Enhance AEC podcast. And we want to know, you know, companies and people that enhance war around them um and basically what their why is, you know. And so what's the what's your bigger vision and what's your bigger reason for doing all of this? What's your why, basically? That's a good question. I think, I'll say we, but I am drawn to energy and I think getting excited there's what sets us apart really is the enthusiasm and my wife from being a brand group. I was always a cheerleader wanting to root people on. And when I was in the early days consulting for entrepreneurs, I was like, you're amazing in person. Why is that this not reflected online? Like you're incredible. Oh my gosh. Like let, let's get you. let's get you going here and i think and that enthusiasm and that uh... excitement and really making a difference in businesses i think you know having that excitement and always doing things outside the box and fashion it was always just how to strike in a fashion so disruptive it's so hard to kind of thinking in that way and how to help people and It was just also to not waste money. Like, why are you spending on this ad? Like, let's do a podcast. Let's make every cent count and really uh invest your time and money wisely. And then just love seeing people shine and being the best version of themselves and getting out there. Awesome, I love that. mean, um thanks for sharing that, why. Lauren, what about yourself? What she said. her oh storytelling and the energy and the passion and taking. We were really fortunate to learn from these incredible global brands for so many decades and now applying that to this industry that isn't quite as educated about the value of all of that and, you know, locking arms with the people that, you know, sort of buy into our vision of how we can shake things up and really do things a little differently from their competitive set because it works and we. It's such a fun thing to be at this stage of our careers where we can hand pick the people we work with as partners. think, you know, for so many years we worked for others and we didn't have a choice in the brands or the clients that we were working with. And Carrie and I have such similar training and it's been really fun to champion brands that get us really lit up. You know, when we talk about our clients, you know we believe in them. We only partner with... We call them hell yes clients. it's not a hell yes, then it's automatically a hell no. ah So it's fun to be at this stage of our professional careers and have each other to bounce ideas off of and our team is incredible too. And we care so much about our clients, and they trust us. It's really a partnership, and we laugh. Our goal is always to be invited to the holiday parties, because we're an internal team. We're not an outsourced agency. We are part of the team, and they come to us for restaurant recommendations. And they're friends, and we care so much. And I think that's really special, our Y. Yeah. Yeah, I love that why I love your both of your whys. So thanks for sharing all that. I mean, it's, it's been it's been a fun episode with both of you. Obviously, we want to let you get, you know, let everybody know how to find you. So if you could share that with us, what's the best way to get a hold of you? Yeah, well we're brand groupies on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook, and then our personal LinkedIn, Carrie Bella. Yes. Yes, so Carrie C-A-R-E-Y and then Bellog B-A-L-O-G-H. oh And then Sleeman is S-L-E-E-M-A-N. So, if you want to look those up. But I guess you could probably start with the brand groupies and... Absolutely. Sure, thank you. Yeah. So awesome. Well, it's great having both of you on. Was there anything else you wanted to share? oh I think you. I'm happy you here. awesome well we're gonna officially say bye and then okay like you can stay on we're gonna try this new thing with okay yes would you like to i know we're Yeah, we can do it. Yeah. Okay, so, well thanks for being on today. Good to have you. So nice seeing you. Thanks. Hey everybody, thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhance. And please leave a like, subscribe, or follow, and we'll see you next time.