All right, enhancers, welcome to our pre-show walk. On today's episode we had Megan A Joshi, who is an architect in California. So we had a virtual recording and uh you thought this episode was inspiring, I'd say. Um w what did you want to say about it? So we talked about one of the things we really talked about, and definitely introspective inspiring as many episodes, but what I liked about this one in particular uh was one of the conversations we had surrounding you know, uh looks versus usability of buildings. So the the reason I wanted to go on a walk today was, you know, looking around at these different buildings, houses, um, and we talk a lot about that. I mean that's that's what really the end the that's what we really do with in the AEC industry. We we build things and people look at them and they use them. So the debate is which one's more important? W like For you, which one's more important, the looks or the usability of a building? I don't think you can ask somebody who works with flowers which one's more important. But I think that they're they're in an intertwined. Like you can't have you can't have a building without looks, because you have to look at it either way. But you also can't have a structure that's not safe to go into. so I think that you need to have have both um in order to have a good building. But which one is more important? I'd say that if we oop excuse me. If we lose all character and creativity of a building, then you lose the charm of everything. And then we start to become gray and and square and that's something I don't like to look at or focus on. Um what do you think? Yeah, I mean I think if you're if you're noticing the fact that it's square and gray or if if you don't feel good in the building if f effectively, um then it then it's not very usable in some way, right? I mean it's not doing what it's supposed to be doing. Um for example, even a flower, right? So a flower is used to decorate and if it doesn't give you that feeling that it's pretty inside of inside the building or or wherever you're happening to be, um, on s on top of a human. if if the flowers on a human, for example Not on top of a human, but on a human. On your head. Um in other words, if you're wearing it or if it's in a building or whatever the flower's doing, the purpose of the flower is really to uh enhance something. Yeah, right. Let me let me go back to the flower analogy, because I think mums are beautiful, right? A big beautiful mum, but they have a terrible structure to them. And I don't like to use them a lot because they break very easily. But what something I do love is a Lysianthus, which gives the feeling of a rose. It's very it's very sturdy in heat. It grows well in heat, but it also has like a sturdy stem to it most of the time. And that's something that it's like, well, it looks beautiful, but it's also very usable. And so you have this this view of it's beautiful, maybe it's just better for the certain purpose. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great nobody goes into a hospital and expects it to be um an art gallery or something that has really good I don't know, just architectural design. Well, I mean, on the other hand, if you're in a hospital and if you're if you're there with your wife, your mother or family member and you're there for a a week at a time, then you want it to feel like your home. or if you're a nurse that works there, a doctor, that is your home in a lot of ways 'cause you spend all day there. So you want it to be not have the comfortable, right? So I do think they both intertwine, um, as you mentioned. And um, so it's a good debate and we talk about it more on the pod. So tune in. Check it out. My name's Andy. I am the host of the Enhanced Podcast. This is Madeline. She's our producer. These are the type of things we talk about where we interview architects, engineers, and contractors. And look forward to having you on today. Let's to it. Welcome to Enhance, an AEC podcast, where we learn the why behind AEC professionals so that you can learn your why. Hey Megan. Good morning. Good morning, Andy. And welcome to the Enhanced Podcast. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah, definitely. And excited to have you on. So uh I wanted to ask you just an opener question. Um and so you you work do a lot of architecture and you know public places. something that maybe people don't know about public places, you know, as far as an eye for an eye for detail as somebody who you know, didn't used to be an architect, but now you are. So what's a what's an example of that in a public place that perhaps changed your vision of how you see public places now that you're an architect? So the biggest change in how I see places is um in the aesthetics. Before I was a licensed architect or even studying architecture, I used to be very enamored by the aesthetics of a building and how it looked made a big difference to me. But as I get deeper into my practice I understand that it's people and behavior. It's never about the building. The four walls and the floor and ceiling, they're just there to help everybody do what the purpose of that building is, but it's the people that make the place. So uh in the past few years, especially traveling across America, I've been enjoying my road trips a lot because I feel like through road trips you can experience the real America and really understand what people need and what architecture will mean to them. So um people making the place and place making and all these are big slogans, big words, but really understand America first and then design for America. That's my takeaway. Wow, I love that. And um yeah, I was reading I'll segue into into your travels a bit because I was reading your blog. so you have you have a blog, you enjoy writing, you have uh a nice writing style, but you were talking about that, the being on the road. And there is a interesting I guess parallel, but also a dichotomy between the idea of traveling on the road, I thought it was an interesting take on traveling versus being in a space. So can you talk about that a little bit? Sure. traveling to me started couple of years ago. Um before that I used to be a very plains person and uh I used to deal with travel as an itinerary because that time I was also a project manager which meant we're gonna hit the best restaurants, we are gonna hit the best buildings and that's gonna be our uh vacation. But But in the past few years something changed as I started to deeply understand architecture and what it means to people and I started taking these road trips and by road trips I don't mean taking the most efficient way. Um I don't sit in the car and punch in the address and say, Take me there the fastest route. It's the best route that takes me there, the best route that shows me different things. Um recently I did travel through America's loneliest roads and uh when I started my um road trip there I didn't really uh think much. I thought it's the loneliest road, that means there are no gas stations, I might not meet many people, there might not be other cars. And it turned out to be a completely different experience where you could hear the landscape. There was a point where we had to stop and our dog had to do his business and uh it was so quiet there, Andy, you could hear yourself breathing. That's how lonely that road is. And uh that's completely different from where I live, uh especially the Los Angeles, Orange County and San Diego roads that we have here, the freeways. I've never seen anything go faster than fifty miles per hour. that that's how uh traffic blocked we are and it was a completely different experience to see the world like that and then there is this windshield opening up to the whole world. You have the mountains in the distance, you have all this different landscape on the side to see occasional birds. So that gives you a completely different perspective on things. So your thinking kind of frees up. Um th that's one thing I really like about my road trips. That windshield is my imaginary Pinterest board or my mirror board. I start thinking through my windshield when I'm travelling. Yeah, I love that. I love that analogy and it w one of the things that it that struck me was I don't think I've really thought about it, but it's sort of obvious you're moving, but you're not in one space at any given time, right? Like you're not ever just I mean, unless you pull over on the side of the road like you're like you did there, but you're not really in that space for more than an instant, right? Whereas so there's a a difference between being travel you know, traveling and then being in a space, an architectural space where it's it's defined, it's always the same. You know, it looks the same. I mean so that that to me was pretty intriguing way of thinking about it. So um yeah, I I I enjoyed I enjoyed that. and that was just one of your blogs. You have uh a number of those and th what so these blogs they they're sort of inspirations of architecture, but it's not just about architecture. So you you write about s kind of like the the the traveling thing, you kind of have takes on architecture but from other angles. So was that one of your favorite or do you have another one that that was your favorite article so far? So I can't pick a favourite article. They're all my children. On my blog on my website though, I have currently archived many of my blogs. Um trying to organize everything nicely. Um couple of months ago I started that mission. It's not complete yet, so maybe in two months it will look very different from where we are right now. But in the recent days, one of the favorite blogs that I've written I would say is the one about empty nest. my I have two daughters and both of them are in Montana right now and the second one is a sophomore. It took me almost two years to process that feeling of being an empty nester. And in the end I realized that I processed it through understanding the architecture of it. Which was really something I didn't imagine before. And I think also that's the space I am in currently where I'm kind of reconciling who I am as a person, what I do and what do I want out of life all coming together. It's not this architecture is my eight to five and parenting happens after and uh Megana herself happens when everybody is sleeping and uh there is a me time. No, the new understanding is that all of them live together and all of them are happening at the same time. So that has helped me understand architecture in a completely different way. one of the experiences I think I shared on the uh same blog about the road trip is going to a restaurant like Lowe's and looking at the Hagindas there, the single the single use Haginda's ice cream and that was the first thing that I had when I came to America. So there are memories of going to a grocery store in that uh fluorescent lighting and weird mosaic flooring and getting that ice cream and really enjoying it. So things like that keep coming back to you. And this memory didn't come from let's say a Frank Katie building. It came through a grocery store that might not even exist because back then there were um Albertsons that became Albertson Sewon and then became something else. So that store doesn't exist anymore. Um that memory exists though. Nobody can take it away. So architecture and placemaking is something I look through that lens now. People are living constantly. And when you do retail you're giving them a space to live. And when they live they're making memories. They carry these through their life. Are these the experience we want to give them? That's where we need to pause and think and not think of it as another big box retail that comes and goes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean you could be the next experience in somebody who comes to the United States for the first time. You know, or that moment on the highway or that moment when you get to the destination and uh, you know, you ha you can provide a great experience for somebody. I mean that's that's what everybody wants to write about on their website, right? Hey, we provide experiences, we provide this, we provide that, right? But but do you really Do you really think through it in that full full way, you know? Yeah. Holistic way I guess. So um where do you draw your inspiration for these articles? It just comes. I don't draw inspiration. It just comes like the thoughts just uh sometimes they start out really small. It's an Instagram post and then I will say something on my Instagram post and then if it lingers, then it becomes an article. Otherwise if it doesn't r linger it's done and I'm moving on to the next one. But um I think the whole um start to the writing happened because I have too many opinions and architecture doesn't have a defined space for that. I can write on the company's website but then it has to be about the architecture, about the program work we're doing, and then there is these personal blogs that become all about human behavior, but I'm at the intersection so I have to find my own place. Yeah. Has that helped make your architecture better ever? Can you think of an example? would say so, um, because we tend to think from proposal to punch list usually. That's how success is defined to us. Like if we went from point A to point B and delivered a great building, client is happy, we are happy, everybody made money, uh opened on time, that's a success. But to me, success is when people start using the building the way we built it now. that that has changed through writing. I think I kind of audit my own feelings when I write and I did realise that it's never gonna be about proposal to punch list and then through writing several years I had to finally come to that point where I realize it's about the people using the place. It's never about what we do for the background. All we're doing is providing a backdrop for their behaviour. That's it. Right, right. Yeah. Um so it sounds like it has helped in some some way, whether it's maybe an indirect thing or this this idea that your mind has shifted to to the focus on people in your practice. which is another I think you mentioned it w another platitude of sorts that you'd see on architectural websites. You know, it's about the people, it's about the backdrop. But I think what I'm seeing differently with y what you're saying today is it's not just a platitude for you. This is this is real. This is what you think. This is how you think. Right. And it almost took it almost took this inspirational time and and really digging deep to get there. Is that does that sound right to you? Yeah, yeah. It's like the place starts coming to life after the architects, engineers and even the clienters client that we work from, the real estate departments usually are done. Um the pro forma stops dictating everything and then people start dictating how the place should behave. So I think that's the real test of architecture and that's when that's where all of us need to focus. It's not Delivery of the building, it's what happens after we deliver the building. Yeah, and that's that's always interesting too. I mean, I remember now I'm I'm a structural, but I remember a concept from one one of my courses and it was related to the idea that, you know, we can design like a a site plan, for example, and we can put sidewalks here, we can put there, and then you know, the people come and show up and they they go across diagonal across the site. Well isn't that the biggest discovery? That people don't like to walk where we provide the path. They want the path that's the easiest and the diagonals are the ones people want. Yeah, exactly. The shortest path. I mean, it makes sense. But at the same time, it also one one of the things that I remember from that I don't remember what the context was of that course. It was probably like a a senior design course or something. But anyway, the point is the lesson learned that I had was th the one of the groups said what our solution to that is we're gonna let the paths occur and then build the sidewalks later. So I was like, Okay, that's interesting. Um have you ever what is your thinking on that type what what is your response to that type of thinking? So one of our clients, that name shall not be named, it's confidential. But after the punch list, before they do the final landscape, they let people use the site a little bit. And they see where these paths are forming. And those are the paths for later. So it it is happening and it's very successful, saves time and efforts for everybody. But again, it really depends on the clients too. Is your client looking at this building as a long term investment for their consumers or are they looking at it as something to be remodeled in five years? That changes design a lot. Yeah. And how do you know when a place or a space is working well for people? I would say when they don't notice the building. If you went into a retail establishment, you didn't pause and think a single moment about architecture or what's working, what's not working, it's working. Because end of the day the building should be a backdrop to what your purpose is and uh let's say you went inside and you didn't feel overwhelmed when you opened the double doors and stepped inside. You knew exactly where to go, you knew exactly how to navigate the building, um, through wayfinding and all that and then you knew where your restrooms were, you knew how to get everything um to the cashier, get out to the parking safely. I think that's a success. If you didn't pause a single minute to say, Ah, that architect should have done it this way or why don't these people think a little before before the design, who does this? If those thoughts didn't come to you, that's a big success. What about pausing to say, this is a striking detail, this is a striking, I don't know, entrance. So you are a structural engineer, I'm an architect, who will do that, will also stand and admire the materials. But generally speaking people don't do that. When they pause they're not saying, Well, I love this interesting detail They say, Oh, I left the spot to take a selfie and put it on my Instagram. That's the way people are thinking. Yeah. Um because we are wired differently, we will pause and we'll touch things, we'll linger a little. Our observation is very different from um I would say a general person using the space. They will see a b a great backdrop, it's gonna be on their Instagram. Um, you know, if you uh sometimes I go this rabbit hole of looking at influencers doing their videos and if you see influencers doing their videos on retail Every time there is an interesting architectural detail they are holding up all these things in front of it and making a video. That's how they see it. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Um so that's inter that's interesting. So basically all the the quote unquote details and all the striking aspects of it, it doesn't it doesn't matter what it looks like, it sounds like, right? To you? It doesn't matter what it looks like or it it won't matter if you did a good job. Right. Yeah. If you didn't do a good job everybody's a critic. Right. They'll know if it's bad it looks bad, right? And I mean I what I've noticed too, I mean, um, 'cause I'm not an architect, but I know when something f I can tell like, this is beautiful, this is nice, this feels good. And then sometimes you're you can't quite put I can't tell you why, but there's buildings I go into and I just feel uh it's not that it's dirty, it just feels a little bit cheap and wrong and not quite done right. So maybe it's the lighting, maybe it's the s maybe it's the space layout, but sometimes you just feel like it's just not quite right, you know? And that and that's um when I think what you're saying is like, okay, somebody didn't do their job correctly here. You know. But there is always office spaces in every city that no one wants to rent. And those are the ones where the team didn't work as a team, the architects and engineers and developers. You can you can see that. No one wants to go into those buildings. Yeah. Is that because is that because the location's bad or the architecture's not Sometimes um sometimes location is bad, sometimes it might be the architecture that looks cheap. That kind of brings people down to sometimes it's as simple as lighting, interior materials and um even um there was this building that I used to go to and every time I went in it felt like there was a blast of cold air running through my spine. I knew it was not about the coasts, but it was just an uncomfortable feeling. Yeah. Lighting. I mean lighting. I mean you go to a restaurant and you're getting blasted by the sun, that's that's always Oh no, that never works. Yeah. So And also it tells you the quality lighting is very interesting. it tells you the quality of the space you are in. If the lighting is as I I think especially for restaurants, as it gets dimmer the more expensive the place is. Right, right, that's true. Um, so um that's some of your inspiration, that's some of your your takes in your blog. but you're also and I and I love what you said about your your practice and how it's not you're it's not like a waffle, right? You don't have just hey, this is my my architecture, this is my life, but it's all integrated. But you do you do have a a day job. Right. So um and it and but what what does your your day look like uh as your as an architect at MG two? So I'm the managing principal for the MG two Irvine office. Um we are headquartered in Seattle where we have three hundred plus people. Uh the MG two office for Irvine that's under my oversight has forty one people now and we are growing rapidly. The day is very unique every day, I would say. Some days it's like I start my day with a strategy planning session for one year, three year, five year plan and we're all arguing about what needs to be our Ryan's next attention and uh how do we make sure I have the staffing to get that done. And next thing you know is it's a sh a small much smaller scale meeting where somebody has a question on a project and I'm trying to get the answer from my twenty years experience in let's say retail. So it goes from that to that scale to something smaller very quickly and Through the day I adapt and learn and keep going. Um sometimes during all this I just take time to attend a ULI event and recently I attended a industrial event for ULI. I could never gather so much information on my own even if I sat down. It would take me days to understand the state of market for Orange County and Inland Empire, but just sitting in that event for one and a half hours, having the experts speak about it. Help me enhance my knowledge. I really love those things as well. And then um that's my network too, so when I show up for friends I can be sure that friends will show up for me. It's a support system that we built over the years. So the day goes from any of these things to deep work, just me sitting with my headphones and trying to come up with new plans or new initiatives for the office. One thing I consciously do every day is my micro minute mentorships because our office is also very diverse and we represent fifteen countries, twelve countries, we speak fifteen languages in addition to English. No one speaks all these languages uh every day at work, uh unless they're on a Mexico or Puerto Rico project and they need to speak in Spanish. But that also brings another slice of culture to the office as well. So we have all those things happening and then there's so many immigrants just like me and I take that minute to mentor everybody every day in small ways because somebody took that time with me. Somebody told me that, hey, it's nice that you're doing it that way, but try this. You might like it. So I try to kind of push that to others. It could be as simple as I'm on a call with a client with my PM who is new and learning and uh he is busy taking the notes while everybody is speaking. So I might just pull him aside after the meeting and say, don't do that, maintain eye contact even if it's a virtual call. But keep writing your notes on the side with your hand, because you can do that without actually looking at the keyboard or what you're writing. So if it's that important to you, write it down. Otherwise get into the habit of taking five minutes after the meeting. writing down the takeaways and also writing down what should have happened and what did you miss because that really helps you gather your thoughts and uh plan the next one better. So I do take those minute mentorships very seriously. Of late it's also been about using Chat GPT for pulling reports, pulling agendas. So sometimes after talk to people about it's great you're doing that, use it as a tool. Do not let it do the work. So things like that you cannot have them as a one on one mentorship agenda items, but they need to happen for us to be a better practice. Right. Now does that is that something that you do organically, like something pops up and you just share, hey, don't don't uh take notes. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean it's okay to take a note or two but like maintain the eye contact, but is that an organic thing or is that something that you have a like a quarterly review or a weekly review of sorts? It's organic. The mic I call them the micro minute mentorships. Those are very organic. They happen through the day. One on ones happen when people plan it. I tell everybody that I'm available and open. You set the one on ones when you need them. So unless my somebody is my direct report, I don't plan one on ones with them. It's up to them to set them up with me. So there are a lot of coffee walks and coffee talks about, hey, this person is my manager We're doing it this way, but I would also want to try this. What's your opinion? So those sort of things happen planned. And there is also another thing that happens where you planned, which is like the institutional mentorship, which is having um, you know, curriculum and uh making sure that we are really mentoring everybody to the next step intentionally. MG2 had a program called Core for. I heard Collier's Engineering and Design that acquired us recently also has a very rigorous mentorship program. I used to be at um Little Diversified before and they had something called PM Academy for the PMs, Rainmaker for anybody who was planning to go into business development. So those were well planned courses taught by um people interested in teaching and sharing their knowledge. So the intentional courses help, one on ones help at a different level, micro mentorships help. I think together when they all kind of bridge, we'll bridge that gap between our uh emerging professionals and the next level leadership.'Cause I don't know if you guys are seeing that in um on your side, on the structural side, but architecture has a missing middle right now. Um all those people that really left the career and sought something else during the two thousand and eight housing depression, never really found their way back. And uh those were our next generation of leaders and we are missing them. So uh we have to bridge that gap and that's where that intentional mentorship really comes into play where we are teaching the next generation what they're not learning in the classroom or in their everyday work. But very soon we'll be demanding them to perform at that level. Yeah. yeah, I haven't uh well I'm not as I'm not a big company, but I do know that it's hard to find health. So that's probably part of that's probably part of what I'm seeing, right? Is that that missing metal you're referring to. Um has that impacted your I mean, has that impacted your workload? You mentioned the hats. Well, you didn't call hats, but I I you know, the different hats you wear out throughout the day You know, you're you're doing planning one moment, you're doing micro minutes, micro mentorship the other minute. But um what how does that impacted your w your workload? Does that make it really hard for you? Some days it does, because if there was one more person in the middle doing all this, maybe that was not a shared load that some of us who are already at the principal level or let's say in the senior leadership level where our focus should be other things are coming back to address this again and again. That that would have been avoided. it's an ongoing issue still. Every time we want to start a new market or every time we want to start a new program, I have to find people and uh it's very easy to find emerging professionals, especially under ten years of experience, but it's the fifteen to twenty where we really suffer. Yeah. It's right about Yeah. Right about I mean it sounds like you had about twenty years, so right about where you're twenty twenty seven. So about You said twenty earlier, so okay, but yeah, twenty seven. So yeah, a little bit less than both of us, you know, in that t twenty year period, fifteen to twenty. basically the millennial generation, right? Is what is missing. Um and that that's where, hey, that fifteen years of experience, you're I mean, may maybe well one of the challenges I see too is that a lot of those gen that era of you know, t you get 10 years under your belt and then you're ready to go off on your own a lot of times, right? So that's one that's one place the missing middle goes is they just go off on their own. They are sole practitioner or smaller company, because I mean they have a a registered architecture. License so now they can do their own thing, you know, and then or they made it go to a different field. So if you persevere to, you know, t twenty years and now you have to you have to bring them in to an G two or a larger architecture company, so what what what are you doing to do that? How are you bringing them in? So Colliers is all about acquiring different firms. So we're seeing a lot of this happen around us where we at New Zealand we just acquired a new firm and it's a ten people firm and some days it's like we just acquired a new firm, two hundred and fifty new engineers to work with you. So that's the scale that we are dealing with colliers right now. They have eighty eight offices and I'm sure by the time I said this and uh our podcast is live We'll add four more, but it's eighty-eight offices, three thousand people plus. So there is a scale to everything that we do right now. And uh even from for people from G two who are like six hundred plus architecture firm, we are also trying to get along that idea and think in bigger scales. Th there is still a lot of learning to happen to be that global company that we are a part of now and know that our solution will not come from the genius sitting next to me as a senior PM, but it might come from somebody who is a subject matter expert but in our Detroit office. So th that's something I'm still trying to learn and get behind the idea as well. So I think it will happen a lot as we see how we fill this missing middle. we will bring back all these small firms into the fold and let them operate at scale where they are local experts but also part of something big. So um i it will be a work in progress. Right, right. Wow. There's a few things there to uncover, but um it sounds like the one approach to this is to acquire. That's how you that's how you hire is you acquire. I think that's the easiest way to solve the problem because these people are already working on a program that you want to hire for. They have developed a relationship and they have proven that they can make it a success. So that would be the easiest way. Yeah. Um so that's that's interesting. Um but the other thing that okay, now you've acquired and you've become a really a remote company in a lot of ways. Right. Partially in in office, partially remote, bec b digital corridor, right? Yeah, Detroit is connected to California through the digital corridor and um I mean I guess you guys are um a hybrid. situation effectively. Right. Yeah. how how do you how do you get that subject my main question is how do you get that subject matter expert from Detroit that you mentioned a moment ago, how do you get that information? How do you even know they're there and catalog that type of information, right? I call it internal business development and networking. Because uh there are eighty-eight companies within our company now and I don't know frankly who is who and what do they do. So I rely on my network a lot and uh it's always asking the person I know who is the other person I need to know and how do I build that relationship. So in the past year and a half that we've been acquired I have kind of spread my internal networking into things that I'm interested in, the typologies that we already serve or typologies that we want to build and connecting to those people organically and staying in touch. Because when the right opportunity comes, you can't go finding the person. You need to know your person before you even get that opportunity. So that's my internal network building these days. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And so you're still on that front end of sharing what you're able to to provide for G two and and what would you say that is that you individually provide that's a as a subject matter expert? So individually my expertise is in retail. Um I have dabbled into affordable housing and senior housing in between, but more than twenty years of my career has just been retail. And uh banking is where my subject matter expertise is. Anybody from any of our offices can really call me on a question and know that they will get an answer or I will know somebody who will know an answer. So um banking and financial institutions have been my special subject matter expertise. Yeah, and I mean that's um that's really interesting that get getting understanding who the subject matter expert is within the company, I mean, that's a problem that a lot of people need help with. So what I mean, networking is one solution that you mentioned. Communication sounds like a big part of that. So is there any other things that you can do to to really get that information out there or to find that information? I think it would be also participation, active participation in what you seek. Um monthly meetings with the other leaders, I never skip them. Even if I'm busy I will r uh let it run on the side but not skip them because this is where everyone is sharing the latest projects they're working on or something that just happened in their office. So I know whom to approach when I have a question. So that's very important to me. And LinkedIn is another place. I don't completely rely on LinkedIn because there is m there is a big crowd that's older than us, like I'm just talking about you and I here that didn't really embrace social media as a extension of their expertise. Our generation did. And the next generation has gone a step ahead and they have built whole portfolios online. But I like to look at LinkedIn too, see what people are posting about and uh keep a tab on it because sometimes I also put together events for AIA Orange County or ULI or crew and uh this is how I find my next guests. somebody released a book and that resonates with me so I will give it a try and if I think that people in my network will like that we'll have a have an event around it and get them as a chief guest. So that's That's another way of combining our social media experiences with our uh real life networking and kind of making it a hybrid. So that's working too. Yeah. Well you're doing some of that right now, right? You're sharing True. You're sharing you're sharing that now. And yeah, I mean I think uh I I think the uh Gen X we have, you know, a we're kind of hitting our prime time in a lot of ways. You know, I mean because we do have a sense of like we're not necessarily as good on social media as some of the the the younger generations, but But we have a sense of of it, right? And we're pr we're pretty good at it, right? But we are also I mean we grew up learning computers and uh we kinda grew up with computers. Like I you know, in in the eighties and so forth, like the first personal computer came out when I was, you know, a young guy. But um anyway, my point is w we're kind of hitting our prime time 'cause in the same at the same token we have a lot of this knowledge that we're able to share and and um And people w want that knowledge, want that information. You know, and so it's it's an exciting time really, I think, um, to share that information. I I enjoy it. Um and I never really was a social media person until recently and um just I see the opportunity there of kind of what you're saying in terms of the ability to get my knowledge out there. It's actually a mentorship thing too, is what I'm finding. Mm-hmm. Because People want people are eating that up. They want to know some of the big stories and experiences I have and I mean obviously it's social media, so you know, if you can do what you do with like the blog um and add a an interesting story to it, because anybody can just talk about a road, but to to tie the the road to a building and how they're different and how they're the same, that's interesting, right? So that's that's what's fun about what you're doing. with your blog kind of bringing back to the blog. But um yeah, back to MG two for a moment. So what is uh what's an interesting uh exciting project that you guys are working on right now? Are you able to share any of that? It's it's the one that I cannot share much about. But um I will say recently it took a lot of business development for a bunch of different offices to come together and again I'm all about people and people coming together for a shared purpose and uh with intention. And um we won that pursuit. We are kicking it off tomorrow actually. That's very exciting and we'll be building a team around it which is of course exciting to me, more people in the office and bigger scaled growth that are national. So I'm looking forward to that. I wish I could share about the clients but I cannot. Yeah, that's fair enough. Um well I appreciate you at least sharing some aspects of that. And s is there any is there any projects that you've worked on uh that that have um in the past you know few years that you would like to share about? Interesting projects that have helped you uh grow or just were interesting? Yeah. I did a senior housing project called Crustovia. They have recently changed the name I heard. Um there is a new operator, but this is a very upscale senior living project in Laguna Hills in Orange County. And uh this project changed a lot of hands and my biggest growth as an architect happened on this project. Um it was It was the boards that the architects, design architects had for the project that made me think what I want to be and how, you know, th I should step back a little before I tell the whole story. So I became a mother right when I became an architect. So both journeys started in parallel. Uh for many people it's a planned effort where one happens before other and you have dedicated time to each one. Um I didn't have that luxury. I jumped right into both and uh I didn't give a pause to either one. I did my best and kept them going, which meant I was doing projects where I could leave the office at four o'clock pick up my kid from daycare. So when I saw the boards for Crustovia something really happened within me with that said I think this is the time for you to step up and be be the architect you want to be and not really positive for everything that's going around you. So it was a lot of conversations outside and inside. Like I had to tell people at my work, my leaders, that I'm ready to step up and my leaving at four o'clock will no longer be an issue to anyone. You can't really put me on a project that that's gonna take everything from me, which means long days late evening some days and all that. And at home the conversation was on the other side where I had to tell my husband that I'm gonna need your support now. And uh to the kids, it was the same thing too. Daddy helping me is not Daddy helping me, it's daddy participating as a parent. So all those happened on Crestavia and it was a great project too. Um it was covered so extensively in media and Everywhere I went I could have conversations about it and of course it won a lot of awards and I completely mastered waterproofing with that. So Okay. That yeah, so that's a project that's always close to me. Yeah, that that one sounds like it was a significant one in many ways because I can definitely relate to that too. I mean, what you were talking about getting getting going with your career and you didn't have time to really, you know, f plan being a parent and plan your career in a w in in in some ways, right? You just sort of jumped in with both feet, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. But you're just going through the motions every day, keeping it alive. Yeah, and I I think that's an exciting way to do it, of course, to me, because you I think sometimes w if you plan it out, you might not necessarily plan it the way it happened, right? I mean I I d you know, I don't think I would my life would have necessarily w worked out if I would have tried to plan every little detail out. It kinda goes back to the the ro the road trip analogy and taking the path of meandering the meandering path. And the interesting path versus, hey, I'm gonna, you know, try to itinerary it down to the detail. and whi which one's better. I mean, I think it does help to have a plan at times, but sometimes the meandering path is is a fun way to do it. Okay. Uh but yeah, it definitely sounds like you you learned a lot on that project. Um how about a how about a project where it it was a challenge and it wasn't a great project that you learn what what's a project you learned something on? So even the projects with challenge they end up teaching you something and they have a way of remaining with you forever. I keep telling my staff that the weird general notes you see on the project title sheet, they're all somebody's trauma. They ended up being a general note on the next project because somebody got burned somewhere. So I wouldn't say a bad project per se, but There was a project that was a stop and go for many, many years. And um i it was a learning experience on many levels for different people. Um it was a bank and I started working on this with let's say company A when I was almost leaving them and uh we hit some problems and uh the project went on pause. Guess what? I come to company B and the same project comes alive and I shared all my experiences immediately and said these are the problems we are gonna unearth. Are you ready for it? of course people didn't listen immediately, we had to go through a few steps uh to get to the point where we were before again and it was a stop. And we restarted it again when the architecture the project management company for that particular uh financial institution changed. They wanted to kick start that project again. And this time I changed the communication style that I had before. Instead of waving the red flag and saying, hey, you're gonna hit all this, it's not gonna be a fun project. I just made a due diligence list of saying we're gonna take two years to get to this point. Three years to permitting after and uh it might even take five years for us to be done with this. So that clarity in communication instead of saying, Do we wanna do this to a client? that's something I learned with that project. That that project died. Like nobody ever touched it, but we have touched it many times without really doing anything. Yeah. It sounds like a important lesson in communication and expectations with clients. So um I'm sure you've you've uh used that lesson on fr you know, from here out. So on the um on the mentorship, I wanted to go back to that for a moment because it sounds like an important part of what you do and was there somebody that really mentored you early on that that has empowered you to to provide mentorship now. It's been many mentors and by naming some I'm gonna do a disservice to ones that I forget. But one thing I would like to say is if not for everybody who held my hand throughout my career, I wouldn't be where I am. And even today, if not for the people who are helping me navigate this every day, it's hard. I still have my industry mentors that I meet for coffee meet for lunch and just discuss what's happening without giving the details and uh that's valuable. Yeah, yeah. so uh now you're you have an opportunity to to do both. You're getting mentored and you're you're providing mentorship as well. So as as you mentioned coming to the US for the first time, what are some what what's different about living in India and the US for you? I'm gonna make enemies when I say this, but I'm gonna say safety. It's it's the number one thing coming to US that I felt. Like I can go at eleven o'clock to do my groceries, come late from work and drive my own car and completely know that I'll be safe coming home. That's something I didn't experience in the early parts of my life. So that that's big. Um Architecture wise, India is uh a big pioneer in adaptive reuse without understanding what the term was before. Like they had they have had architecture be a part of life for many centuries now. There were temples that the kings built and then we were uh ruled by the Muslim kings for years and they brought their own architecture which was Turkish influenced and when they left it was the British and the British brought all the universities and um you know, institutions, offices, everything to our ecosystem. So right now, like at least when I was growing up in the eighties, if you went out in the city, you would see traces of all that living together and architects building something so contemporary along with that. So that's something I don't see in America. That's a big difference. Especially I live in Irvine. It's a master plan city. I think the world's biggest beige paint consumer as well. All our homes are beige stucco. None of them look the same because architecturally we have made it different, but if you just come here you'll be lost. Everything is beige and stucco in a box. And uh That was something that I had to get you used to. And knowing how you know, like y simple things like Starbucks. You know what your Starbucks colours are, you know how it will look, you know how it will taste and smell and doesn't matter which part of the country you are in. That program architecture was something I was not exposed to before. Program architecture, what what does that mean to a structural when you're you're helping your client with their business goals by developing a prototype and helping them deliver at scale. Let's say you're working with a client like I will just say Starbucks and not Starbucks is our client. Um but if you're working with Starbucks, they will roll out, let's say, fifteen hundred new stores this year. And um There is prototype, prototype A, B, and C, let's say. Um f something for Seattle market will be downtown Seattle market will be very different from Kansas, middle of nowhere, um closer to a highway, Starbucks. And then there is of course something within a grocery store that looks nothing like these two. So we develop prototypes for those and then kind of localize the solutions and When you approach projects with that perspective, you can start delivering on scale and work as a partner to your client, to their business goals. So that that to me is program architecture. Okay. Yeah. And that that sounds interesting. and in terms of I'm thinking about my experience with with these different retail places, coffee, for example. And it does seem like some of the coffee shops, um, Starbucks, for example, they it does seem like I've seen a shift in the mentality. um in terms like you mentioned the experience. So it seems like the shift isn't um to have it does seem like a shift is to have people just experience the the place. It feels like the goal is to get people in, sell coffee and get people out. Um but I don't know what it I don't know if you have any opinion about that. So again, that goes back to program work and understanding the client's business goals. There are places where you want your client in and out in a second because demographics show that that's what the client wants in that area. And then there are places where, you know, it's like you've seen this in Starbucks of course, like people will come in with the laptop and sit there for hours and probably order two coffees. The business there is not dependent on the coffee, but it's really dependent on bringing the people in and being that community hub. So understanding what your clients goal are goals are for the business in that particular location is very helpful in program work. Yeah. What is um What's an area w where your your architecture and the program work that you were able to provide your customer uh has really has really impacted their business? Can you think of an example? And you don't have to share Very confidential, but I will uh respond to this in a general way. When you're working on program architecture, if you make a mistake, you're amplifying it by hundred before you know it. That's the scale of it. So to think and really make sure that everything is working in the design um in your prototype is very important and that's the best way to influence design. Like don't think of it as a prototype to answer your clients need but think of the prototype as a response to their business needs. As their partners. how do you get to to that correct answer if if you're if that's the right word, correct answer, or how do you get to that answer? to that path you n you have to start treating your clients as your partners. It's not a project that walked in the door, let's say you're working for a coffee shop. You need to understand their business model, who's coming, who's using it, what kind of stories are they taking and what do they want to see in a Starbucks or let's say a Seven Brew or a Dutch Bros. So understanding your client's business model, business focus and who their client is really helps you come back to how you wanna design it. Right, right. Yeah. And 'cause yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah, I was just gonna add, when a client comes to you, they are not gonna say my consumer wants to see this happen. They will just tell you I need a store that's thousand square feet and uh seating for thirty people or something like that. The rest is up to you. You have to help cast that vision, right? Mm-hmm. Because we you know, we the I mean, I'm just saying the the person who's hiring you to get that that work done, that program done, they're not able to necessarily always visualize it or even see that path, right? I mean they just they just want a building, right? True. True, they just run a building, there's a program that they know they want, but rest is all our responsibility. Yeah. So you have to communicate. That's probably a skill that's important and ah also you have to problem solve, right? I mean you that's probably an important aspect of it. Um so w are there any is there anything else that is important in that process? Listening I think especially us architects need to be reminded again and again that our job is to listen first. So the more we listen and listening goes not just to the clients, even to our um employees, the staff and everybody around us, the more we listen, the better we can get. Yeah. Okay. So that's some good advice. Um now I know everything I need to know to to design a retail space, right? Not quite, but um so uh what's next and exciting for you and what you're doing with MG two? I The scale is exciting to what's coming next because we used to be a retail firm and we were trying to get into multifamily, mixed use and other things, but just having this plethora of subject matter experts around us and the scale that uh C D brings to us, that's something I'm very excited about and also You're not doing localized solutions for everything and I say this more about the people, but then if you look about look at the systems, it works in a very different way. Now we have access to the systems that we previously couldn't afford. A company with three thousand people can definitely bring resources that you couldn't dream of as a six hundred people company. So those are things that I'm very excited about and I'll be a little careful about how we integrate as a location because we we don't want to lose who we are as Irvine office in the end. That needs to stay intact even when we are becoming colliers engineering and design. So it takes work on both sides. Right. You wanna you wanna have the best of both worlds in terms of the culture, the work that you've done to build the good things, and then also you wanna get the the advantages of the company that at large as well. And and like the the Detroit example we talked about earlier and tapping into that knowledge. Um well, uh it sounds like a lot of exciting things are coming for you, Megan, with uh your writing, with your architecture, with the the company you're now with. G two. Um, but one thing I like to really find out about and um I think you've already shared some of this, but what is it that you're doing to enhance the world around you right now? I really want to focus on mentorship more. Um it's like this is other than all the design work or growing M G two as an UN office and all that of course. I want to focus on mentorship as a shared responsibility than looking at it something as an extra on my plate. Because how these people, like the next generation of emerging professionals, how they think and how they behave is gonna influence a whole profession. And if we have some say in guiding that a little bit, I think we should take that and step in and do our best. Yeah, make the idea that you're there, but they have to they have to raise their hand i is part of it too, right? and you can guide you can encourage them, but you can't do it for them, right? No. And and they should step into the I would say dirt, get their hands dirty and then figure it out a little bit too. A recent example was um I started the Women in Architecture Committee for AI Orange County in twenty fifteen. Um the I I I was PM then so I was looking at leadership in a different view and working with the emerging professionals with a different view as well. And I was able to bring issues to light that affected both and put together programming that helped everyone. Um somebody wanted me to take that position again and help rebuild it a little bit and I had to tell them that it's not my place anymore. I can help and mentor the person who wants to take over and be their guiding light and uh the shining beacon, whatever, but I will not be stepping in and taking leadership anymore. It's it's for the emerging professionals to build the world around them. Hm. Wow, I love that. And that's um that's an encouraging thing to share. Um because I think that's really what leadership is about. It's not about doing it always, it's about gr providing a pathway for the next group to to do their part as well. Right. True. If you empower somebody else with their vision, I think that's leadership winning then uh like I'm not trying to trivialise anything that we do as leaders, the profit and loss still matters because the profitable the firm is more you can put into people and people become better and then you know the same thing goes on. It's circular. But at the same time if people can carry out their vision with confidence because you empowered them There isn't no wind bigger than that, and Yeah. Awesome. I love that. And that's a great that's a great place to bring it in for a close. Um but I did want to just see if there was anything else that you wanted to share with the audience today. What what do you want to leave the audience today? I wanna everybody to care a little bit.'Cause it's just going by social media and everything around me, we're not caring enough and I don't mean it in a very big altruistic way where I want to stop the wars and everything. Of course we want to stop all that, we want world peace, but I'm talking about architecture and engineering as an ecosystem. Let's care a little bit. And we're doing the work, we're already there eighty percent, but that twenty percent step is all about caring for what we do. and uh putting our hearts into what we are doing. So my big ask from everybody or a parting ask will be to care a little. Yeah. Okay. And is that it it sounds like the eighty twenty thing is yeah, we did it, but we didn't quite get it that at last tw somebody else will do that. Or somebody else will it actually ties back to the mentorship uh thing that you were just saying, because somebody else is gonna mentor this person or some somebody's gonna have to just teach me how to do this, right? Mm-hmm. So we have to care more. We have to take it, right? Yeah. I love that. that's great feedback, Megan. And um I really enjoyed having you on. You have a lot of inspiration to share and a lot of uh a lot of good messages today for for our audience, which um yeah, I think I think they'll really enjoy it. So was there um how do people find you also, by the way? I'm very active on LinkedIn and Instagram. Yeah. Okay, LinkedIn, Instagram. You can find Megana E G H A N A Joshi J O S H I LinkedIn Instagram. Um so check her out. And um yeah, gr loved having you on today and take care. Thank you. Thanks Andy. This was a fun conversation. I'm glad we could make it happen and looking forward to listening to other podcasts that you it up. Yeah, I appreciate it. All right. Thank you. Hey everybody, thanks for listening to today's episode of Enhance. And please leave a like, a subscribe, or follow, and we'll see you next time.